It is clear that the signal to noise ratio of the WWW is getting worse. It’s much harder to find good content when using a good old search engine. And if it’s good it is usually hosted on Reddit or Stackexchange.
So remember, even if it’s easy too Google something (well, it isn’t nowadays), we want to create a fediverse of good content that helps people (I hope). So, it’s always better to write a real answer if you have the time and energy. Please help boost the SNR and reverse the AI fueled information degradation loop.
It’s too bad ChatGPT will never replace a real Reddit thread:
Just ask them to answer your question in the style of a know-it-all Redditor because you need the dialog for a compelling narrative or something
I’ve never had issues with looking anything up. By downranking Reddit and using a search engine with a good indexer that downranks bullshit and generated websites, which mine is really good at, I haven’t noticed much change from how it was before.
But I agree with the second part. That’s something that never occured to me, and it makes sense. I was usually trying to answer questions I knew, and never had the urge to reply “just google it”, so it doesn’t change much for me, but it’s a really good point I never realized.
In the before times we had libraries of books that’d teach a person anything they wanted to learn. If a person had a question and the book didn’t answer there was someone there who didn’t know the answer but damn well knew how to find it. We never had to sort through piles of garbage content produced to waste our time for profit.
Even the early Internet was this way. Its slow degradation became a nose dive with broad adoption of Facebook and AI. I had to starting writing a line of code to search. And, that doesn’t even work anymore.
I used to be pretty good at googling stuff, but the last 1 or 2 years it just won’t work anymore. For instance, I had to charge a battery yesterday, and the power led started blinking when I put the battery in. I didn’t know if this meant either charging or faulty battery, so I googled it. Got pages of ads for this particular charger, but no answer. So google is just a big marketplace these days, and nothing more.
Just so you know, a dremel battery is charging when the power led blinks.
Did it not have a manual?
Just yesterday I was looking for similar info on a thermostat. Given only the brand name and knowledge that it was a thermostat, I found the product line, tech specs, and manuals. (I didn’t find the answer I needed, but that’s because it was “the button can be programmed to do different things by the control system”).
It does, but google decided I needed to buy a new one, not download the manual.
Usually both of those options are on the same page. If you have one, you have both, or at least a lead on their support site.
I’ve made posts and videos about fixing cars or other items where there were no answers available anywhere, where I also go into detail about root causes so that the problem doesn’t repeat itself.
My absolute favorite videos for car repairs were some shade tree mechanics who just recorded what they were doing and talking through the steps. No fancy lighting setups, no separate camera person. Just explaining and sharing knowledge for something that I couldn’t figure out by reading words because the written word was just ‘lightly hammer’ and they showed the angles and explained where the parts were frequently getting caught.
You are a hero.
Repair steps are one of the few tasks that I feel videos are better than words (and sometimes pictures). It definitely helps to see the motions they’re taking and a single capture of the location from walking up to the car (or other repairable object) all the way to looking at the part that needs fixing.
What’s your search engine of choice?
I’m using Kagi, but as of right now I’m not sure if I can recommend it. The last year with it was amazing, but for the past few days I’ve been getting blocked searches from my VPN out of nowhere. That would be a dealbreaker for me, but I hope it was just a mistake and they will fix it. It’s the first time it has happened in the year or so I’ve been using it.
Apparently, they are also adding a bunch of AI features, but I only noticed it when I was looking up the feature page, and I haven’t noticed any of it in my feed before that - so I guess they don’t push it on users and it’s optional somewhere out of the way, so don’t let that discourage you. (Though, it would’ve discouraged me, if I saw that before I started using it. But as of now it doesn’t affect you unless you look for it, I guess)
Other than that, the search is awesome. But since I’m using it exclusively for like a year, I can’t really compare it with other engines, it’s possible that I’m just used to it.
I haven’t noticed any of it in my feed before that - so I guess they don’t push it on users and it’s optional somewhere out of the way
That’s a bold assumption.
SearxNG To quote old Ben, “This is the weapon of a Jedi Knight. Not as clumsy or random as a blaster; an elegant weapon for a more civilized age.”
Remember that most people don’t even know there is something called “rankings” or “indexer” in this context.
Do you mind elaborating on your search setup? I’d like to be able to avoid a ton of bullshit especially while working.
I just use Kagi, which seems to be pretty good at filtering bullshit by default, and have mabually downranked reddit and twitter, ot any other site I found and don’t like. But it’s been a long time since I used other search, so I can’t compare it much since I’m used to it. Never really had any problems with not finding what I need.
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“Just make shit up” is basically saying the same thing.
and ill throw that suggestion into the fucking trash.
Until it gets paywalled
Did you mean “Don’t reply, just google it”? /s
I disagree. Questions that can be easily looked up using a search engine are actually adding to the noise.
It’s also just plain disrespectful to expect people to look stuff up for you because you just couldn’t be bothered to type your question into a search engine yourself and perhaps look further than the first few results.
For the last decade, the vast majority of helpful results for obscure things has been reddit posts of users asking the exact same question. Usually the person answering knows some context that the person asking isn’t aware of needing to include in their question, which is why they couldn’t find it on their own. Heck, a lot of the time I was missing the same piece of information!
Without someone answering the ‘easy’ question, there wouldn’t have been any results that were clear answers to those questions.
I think we’re not talking about the same kind of questions here. Questions about “obscure things” someone “couldn’t find [the answer to] on their own” are almost by definition those that cannot be easily looked up using a search engine.
I’m talking about questions like “When is Easter in 2025?”, “What does the W in George W. Bush stand for?”, “Where will the next Tailor Swift concert take place?”, “Who is the oldest member of The Beatles?”.
Those are different from questions like “Can you recommend a children’s book about bears for a 4 year old?”, “Which smartphone should I buy as an environment-conscious person?”, “My car is making some kind of scratchy noise. What could be the cause?”.
When asking about the Beatles, are they asking about those still living or all of the founding members? Sice many bands have changed members over time, could they be asking about the time in the band or their age in years?
Suse, this was easy for the Beatles since they had a single lineup and are popular enough that all of that is easy to find. But it is a good example of a simple question that could be asking different things based on context and even if they get an answer it isn’t necessarily what they are looking for, but they didn’t know how to ask. Follow up questions are possible when interacting with others who may point out missing context, but not for search engines.
Also, kind of funny that you are an instance with ‘discuss’ in the name and you are opposed to discussion about easy to search things.
When asking about the Beatles, are they asking about those still living or all of the founding members? Sice many bands have changed members over time, could they be asking about the time in the band or their age in years?
Either way it would be easy too look up. The person asking would be aware of what they actually want to know after all.
you are opposed to discussion about easy to search things.
No, I’m saying questions with definite answers that are easy to look up are unnecessary noise. On the contrary, those are exactly the kind of questions that do not invite discussion. I’m all for people discussing anything they like. But if you’re just wondering how many ancient world wonders there are, maybe have a look at the Wikipedia article first.
I’m all for people discussing anything they like. But if you’re just wondering how many ancient world wonders there are, maybe have a look at the Wikipedia article first.
El oh el
I know right? People conversing about their problems?! The nerve!!! This is MY space, not theirs. People should only be allowed to post what I approve!!! and I do NOT approve oc asking for help, those fucking betacucks. let me scroll linux memes in peace
Then don’t answer and move on. Most of the time I see someone say “JuSt GoOgLe It” they don’t understand the question.
Stack overflow is garbage because questions were answered a long time ago and those answers have become irrelevant over time.
There’s also no reason to be toxic.
That’s exactly what I do. I’m also not saying people should actually comment “JuSt GoOgLe It” or be otherwise toxic. Just that unnecessary questions exist that add more to the noise than to the signal.
The most useful thing about interacting with another human mind is that it can see when the question needs to be updated in order to get a correct answer.
A crude example would be:
Q1: how many screws should I use to join these pieces of wood?
A1: It’s more relevant to use screws which are long enough.
Q2: Which screws should I use?
A2: This size.
These will be CAPTCHAs in the future.
Remeber for a while there used to be this website you’d create a link, which would direct you to a portal that would type your question into Google and hit enter. It was let me google that for you dot com or something.
It always felt like such a passive aggressive dick move 😂 when people just wanted answers from a real human they could interact with
We’re all stupid about some things, but googling stuff has genuinely gotten harder these days. The answers are full of ads and AI garbage
You say “just wanted answers from a real human” and I hear “I’m too lazy to search and now I’m going to be a fucking time thief”.
time thief? are you fucking kidding me?
you realize you don’t need to reply right???
This. Searching Google still nets valid first page results most of the time. Like it always has been, searching is a skill that you need to develop and maintain. When the results shift due to content drift, you need to adapt to remain effective.
If you can’t be bothered to try, you don’t get to throw a little baby tantrum because you didn’t get the bottle put directly in your mouth.
This. Searching Google still nets valid first page results most of the time.
How was the ten year sleep you apparently just woke up from?
Someone asking doew not obligate you to respond. There is no theivery. You can walk away without saying anything. They cannot take your time from you.
You’re choosing to waste it by responding with something unhelpful, though, and wasting their time for the sake of your unrequested public masturbation.
Equating answering a question to somebody stealing your time is not the hot take I was expecting to read this morning, lmao
Doing the lord’s work.
Search engines are mega sucky these days, but Wikipedia has never been better. I find myself going straight to wiki any time I need a quick fact or basic info.
Wikipedia is an internet gem
I give them a few quid every month. Might be the only regular donation I’ve got going at the moment (was being the sole earner for 3 until recently so yeah, rebuilding slowly)
Hear hear! We’re all witnessing what can happen with something nice, if you nurture it and keep improving, slowly, instead of the new pattern of Embrace, Extend, Extinguish or insisting on extracting maximum value. Modern Wikipedia is often rich in content and fun to use. I love it :)
I can’t imagine just how much more lost we would be if we had an internet without Wikipedia…
What would we be using, some form of online Encarta? Ugh.
I’ve noticed that a lot of people are just really bad in using the right searching terms, and then quickly shifting through all the info to find the right information. Googling well truly is a skill. Though be it a strange one.
Same! Had a discussion recently with a guy searching about gun law in Austria for 3D printed weapons. He showed me his Search Query. Didn’t even include the word “Law”. People just really forgot how to properly query search engines.
I was going to bring up card catalogues and microfiche, but it is more difficult now, especially with all the AI written articles popping up a la carte as top results.
I guess it would be like the physical library having a fee^1 to enter, the librarian men and women in lingerie and banana hammocks, and all the publications unsorted: Fiction and Non-Fiction together with celebrity magazines, The National Enquirer, and nazi publications… and lots of torn out pages.
^1 Fee replaces ads. I’d rather not picture a world where the advertising in the show Maniac exists. (Can’t afford the bus? The ad-reader shows up and speaks ads at you until you have “earned” the $1.25, or whatever.)
It’s not even much of a skill anymore now that there’s so much focus on natural language question and answer. You can straight up Google “how do I X?” And get a relevant answer for just about anything.
That’s not exactly true. The AI answers are often wrong or incomplete. You still need skill, it’s just that the required skill has shifted to accepting this is true, recognizing when the AI answer is not complete and correct, (which can be more difficult due to the answers often being seemingly correct, yet slightly wrong or incomplete), and then doing what you’d do in any other search that nets poor results: adjust and search more or dig further down the given results stack.
There’s a few things I hate people for regardless of context and one of those is lmgtfy links
Thank you for saying that.
Also, fuck Google. I’ve been removing the word from my lexicon. I say, let me search (or research) that instead
IRL i’ll say ‘online search’ or ‘internet search’ now, and no one ever asks me about that or tries to clarify with ‘google?’, so the message seems to be coming across just fine.
Same. I still choose to believe that not using Google as a verb makes a dent in the behemoth. Usually gets a curious reply like “what, like Bing?”
Duck It
Duck you 🦆
can you ducking duck off you ducking ducker?
As a software engineer…
Don’t just say “just Google it”. Guide them to the documentation. Ask them about the detail of the question. If it’s an bug, try asking them if they can reproduce the bug.
This reminded me of the time I’m looking for how to do certain things in a software. I found a reddit post asking about the same issue and this is the reply OP got:
Here is the link: https://old.reddit.com/r/i3wm/comments/mupjsf/how_to_showhide_i3status_bar_taskbar/
Imagine. You search the issue you have. Found the ONLY reddit thread that talks about this, and the ONLY thread that talks about the issue have NO USEFUL ANSWER and, worse, the only reply is TELLING YOU TO SEARCH IT YOURSELF. This got upvoted too 😭😭😭.
Luckily, I found the solution (tbh the solution was there in the docs, but the wording wasn’t clear and it makes it hard to search) and I end up replying the OP the actual answer.
So, this is a PSA for the fediverse: be nice. It’s free.
While we’re still young, we have a chance to become a better forum.
Also possibly an unpopular opinion: you shouldn’t downvote a question, even if it was asked multiple times. Guide them to the answer instead
Wow that is infuriating.
Looks like you solved your problem by RTFM ;-)
I’ve never seen this acronym, but I’m pretty sure it says reading the fucking manual
its a website that has man pages for stuff.
But what about woman pages? smh so much for inclusion
damm true.
Just google it.
As funny as that is, I can’t imagine Google would want to hide anything more than this piece of knowledge right here.
ftfy
That insulting is satisfactory
Has this same energy: https://xkcd.com/979/
Even worse is when they edit their post to add “Never mind, figured it out.”
These people should be unable to reproduce. Just as soon as they edit the post, a shriek of agony can be heard for miles.
I ran across an example of this recently, on fucking Github. Bitch it’s your goddamn issue ticket, on a fucking dev site, and you returned to say you figured it out but can’t be fucked to explain how? GAHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
I’ve posted my solution to my own question a few times (the rare occasion when I’ve been unlucky enough to have an unsolved problem, and lucky enough to fix it).
It’s extra work but every few years I get a note of thanks or up vote, even a decade or more later.
Also Google results differ since like a decade. It may show for you in California, but its nowhere to be found for me in Iran
Something, something, recursion.
While I agree that the search engine has gone to shit, the problem I have with people who ask really simple questions is that they haven’t done the bare minimum to ask for help.
Simple questions have fairly popular answers and even an enshittified Google search will return the correct result within their fucking AI.
If you have a simple question and the answers seem confusing, tell us why the answers are confusing. Don’t just ask the question.
Being able to Google your question is an important skill, but so is asking a question in a forum. Since forum posts are at their very nature asynchronous, being able to do your own searches shows those who are trying to help you that you have the skills to read their responses and extrapolate to your situation and then take the appropriate action.
I provide a lot of free support on various Linux and developer forums. The sheer number of people who want me to hold their hand is too high.
There is no bare minimum to ask for help.
There is a bare minimum to responding to someone asking for help, though: Being willing to provide some. Replying to tell them they haven’t earned the help yet is just being an asshole for the sake of feeling self-satisfaction, and it’s actively making the Internet a worse place.
Don’t do that shit. They don’t need to know your feelings on the issue, and neither do the rest of us. Nobody asked about them.
Yes, it also leads to people like me feeling like they need to go down a rabbit hole for 5 hours before they’re “allowed” to ask. Then, upon finally asking, they come to find out the answer was quick and simple and they could have saved many hours.
This is such a problem for me. Hot damn do I envy people who don’t let the fear of seeming stupid keep them from just asking the damn question.
Ignorance is bliss?
The issue with that is trolls who either 1. ask for source when something is an easy to find fact of life (i.e. it doesn’t need a scientific paper / article or whatever to prove). To later try to convince / discredit you that your link does not show what you claim (when it does). This one is to waste the other person’s time and nothing else, and is really popular by kremlin bots 2. launch an outlandish claim with no source, you counter it and then you are asked by OP to provide your source, then back to 1. for the rest of the bullshit that they do.
Ultimately it doesn’t matter much when you reply to 2 - 3 people like that, but posting more often, it does simply waste your time.
This is still better than the opposite tactic of sending your opponent to google it and when they don’t find anything saying that it’s because they are not trying hard enough.
Source: google it
I dont think I’ve hardly ever seen someone asking for sources on obvious truths or pretend a source is lying. They just say Nuh uh or Cuss out
I have, however, seen a LOT of people claim shit that isn’t true at all and try to pass it off as basic fact, and
I’ve seen even more people post sources that don’t actually say what they’re trying to prove.
And i dont think this is really the point of the Google it conversation
