As a strong supporter of open-source and community-funded projects like Lemmy, which prioritize serving users over investors, I believe Lemmy has significant potential, and that’s why I am here. However, it is clear that its growth is nearing a plateau in its current form. Despite the surge in users following Reddit’s API changes, Lemmy continues to primarily attract tech-savvy individuals, politically left-aligned users, and those accustomed to old Reddit. For Lemmy to reach the broader average general audience, meaningful changes are necessary.
The rise of Bluesky demonstrates the importance of ease of use and a user-friendly design. Its polished and familiar interface is a key reason for its growth and appeal as an alternative to platforms like X/Twitter. This same ease of use is what Mastodon lacked, leading to its initial hype fading quickly. The average user is unlikely to adapt to something that feels complicated or unfamiliar, and this challenge also applies to Lemmy.
As someone who started as an average Reddit user and became more tech-savvy over time, I can confidently say that first impressions matter. When users first visit lemmy.world, the default UI is often enough to discourage them from staying. Most will not explore the homepage sidebar to explore, figure out and switch to one of the alternative UIs available, which is unfortunate because a better UI could make a huge difference.
This is why I propose that large servers like lemmy.world adopt Photon UI as the default web interface. Photon is currently the best and most mature alternative UI, offering a visually appealing, modular design that feels familiar to users of new Reddit. It makes excellent use of screen space and provides customization options like compact and cozy views. Unlike some other alternative UIs, Photon is actively maintained and ready for widespread use, although in no way is it perfect, this can also help bring in more contributors to the project development.
While it is important to continue offering other UIs as options, I believe adopting Photon as the default UI could make Lemmy far more appealing to the average Reddit user. First impressions are crucial, and the current default UI has turned off many potential users. If we want Lemmy to succeed as a true Reddit alternative, we need to prioritize user experience and accessibility. Thankfully today, Lemmy still continues to be THE biggest Reddit alternative, while our userbase is still considerably smaller than Reddit, it’s the biggest of any alternatives, and Lemmy continues to somewhat be in the spotlight for those seeking alternatives, we can’t let growth stagnate, it’s high time we make the platform more welcoming and appealing for the average joe.
EDIT: The image I attached is from photon.lemmy.world, which I just realized is using the outdated version of Photon, I have updated the image to the updated current photon version from phtn.app. There are a lot of improvements made.
/me pines for the days of protocol over interface. NNTP + killfiles were the bees knees. Then we could just all pick our own interface to connect to any lemmy host.
Photon is dope, pretty sure its developed by our very own Admiral Picard. But I haven’t seen a Lemmy UI that I didnt like yet.
That’s Tesseract.
Photon is developped by @Xylight@lemm.ee
Ah, both are dope though. Can’t say I hate either one for their modern looks. Though the only UIs I have ever hated have all been ones I made.
Nah, the current UI is fine. We don’t need fancy shit on a link aggregator. Reddit went to shit after “updating” the UI.
Your opinions of “good” or “best” aren’t the same for everyone.
I believe adopting Photon as the default UI could make Lemmy far more appealing to the average Reddit user.
How are you supporting that belief? Any data? Any A/B testing?
I don’t want to sound too harsh, but you have sort of marked yourself as a representative of “average OG ex-redditor” or “average joe”. Actually, you refer to “average” quite a lot. But honestly, without any supporting evidence, it’s just words to make the proposal more appealing or relevant. If we remove all this cruft (which might be supported by anecdotal study, but that should barely count, if even), what arguments are here that actually remain?
Don’t get me wrong, if you said that you like “something like Photon” more than the current default UI, then great! It is awesome that other alternatives exist and when people find them, it’s great to share the review. (It’s how I have discovered so much of great software!) But then again, it’s all subjective, right? In your proposal, you seem to tend to state lot of these subjective opinions as if they were objective, which to me makes the proposal just far less convincing.
We tried at communick.news a while ago, it didn’t work so well. Perhaps the situation has improved, so it’s worth to take a look.
Hey, how are you doing?
https://phtn.app/ has the latest version, seems quite faster
Bluesky looks like old Twitter and was even “created” by the former head of Twitter.
It’s not surprising such a guy knows how to succeed.
Lemmy could use a face-lift, sure, but since Lemmy is largely centralized now with Lemmy.world, I’m not sure I care so much about it. It was more fun when Lemmy was started and we had a dream of an distributed network of interesting instances. That didn’t happen and like-minded instances shut off federation with the others.
It’s like children in a sandbox. “That guy said this, I will tell on the teacher”.
Isn’t the ability to defederate a key point of having federation in the first place?
I personally do want to see word salad from supporters of russian genocidal imperialism and or the CCP.
The fediverse really is best viewed as a local-first space. Everything just works better if your primary focus is on the people or communities on your local instance. But people keep trying to think of it as primarily about the space in between, because that’s what’s novel.
But most people do not give a shit about that novelty, and we “market” it terribly.
“Lemmy” doesn’t exist like Reddit does. It’s not a place people can go to talk about shit. It’s a website engine. It exists like WordPress does. One of its features just happens to be “can pull content from other websites”.
If we want this space to grow, we need to focus on building community websites that stand on their own. Then we can market it as “hey, you love it here on MyInterest.social, but did you know you can also talk to people from SomethingElse.social? Pretty cool, huh??!?” Nobody seems to want to do that, though. That means we’re totally at the mercy of places like Twitter and Reddit, waiting for them to fuck up badly again and hoping more people just kind of land here, in some cheap and uncanny knockoff of where they really wanted to be.
I don’t think Reddit’s redesign is a good thing to aim for.
That UI is dogshit. Lemmy is a link aggregator and you’re saying it should show 2 links on the screen at a time? New Reddit is shit for the same reason.
I see this issue through so many newer UIs. Sure it looks nice in a way. But it looses all functionality. We have an info dense application, pairing that with a infosparse UI just causes frustration and excessive scrolling and clicking. Info density matters.
Yea, I hate that trend. Especially when it’s used for information pages about products and you have to constantly scroll around and deal with weird slideshow things to find what you’re looking for (if useful information is even present at all).
It’s got a compact view that is pretty much why I’d be using if I started. I think it makes sense to default to the “cozy” view, even if that is the most bass ackwards naming I’ve seen. The reason being is that “most” people prefer that view and are the same people that wouldn’t bother looking for a setting to change, they’d just nope on out because they got overwhelmed.
Default “cozy” in desktop mode
“compact” in desktop mode
I think compact looks decent in mobile view as well, but since the parent post is about desktop UI that’s what I’m showing.
Compact is certainly better than what OP showed. Frankly I’m fine with driving everyone that thinks the “cozy” view is acceptable away from this platform. I’m not interested in whatever other terrible opinions they’d be sharing here.
- With what I think are near enough default settings, Voyager shows me about 9 stories. It doesn’t feel cramped and the layout is regular, everything lines up.
- With what I think are near enough default settings, my browser here shows me 14 stories, with a good accessible font size by default and me easily zooming out to 80%. It doesn’t feel cramped and the layout is regular, everything lines up.
- I can see 2 stories in that screenshot. Why would I want to have something that’s at least 5 times worse, it feels cramped and parts of it line up I guess?
I literally hate the new reddit UI, as do most peeps I’ve spoken with…
The new reddit UI is designed to push ads, and push premium subs.
Nah that looks like convoluted shit. Simple is better. Like old Reddit. Your screenshot looks like new Reddit dogshit.
People have their preferences, and that’s fine. I certainly think we would benefit from different instances making use of different user interfaces by default, appealing in return to different kinds of people.
I’ve heard some people are not into Piefed because it’s too bare bones or something. For me, that’s exactly why I love it. Besides, they have even added (optional) support for decorative drop shadows - it’s futuristic as fuck, as far as I’m concerned.
Definitely personal preference. I prefer minimal interfaces and logical layouts. This becomes even more crucial for mobile.
Different OG ex-redditor here. I think Lemmy’s UI is vastly superior. But full disclosure, I used old reddit.
How is it clear that Lemmy’s growth is nearing a plateau? And why does Lemmy need broader growth? That seems like a solution in search of a problem. A major advantage of not being a corporate social media property is not having to think like one.
Nice! But the average users graph shows continual staggering growth, no sign of a plateau.
45k monthly active users on 14 October
44k monthly active users on 11 DecemberThe first graph is generally considered the most relevant to assess the activity on the platform
On a longer time scale the monthly active users has been steadily trending down for 4 months, from 48k to 44k. But the users per day has been steadily growing - apart from whatever TF happened on Oct 14 when it suddenly dropped by 50k if I’m reading it right. Database problem?
I’m kind of curious how these readings are taken. The Fox News claim of being “America’s most watched cable news network” is based on a Neilson rating that records TVs multiple times a day, which heavily overweights ones people keep on it all day whether they’re watching or not. Fox does much worse on another Neilson stat called the “qume” which only records one hit per day per TV if that TV was tuned to a channel at all during that day - a much better indicator that people deliberately switched to a channel to watch it for a while. I don’t suppose we know how these Lemmy averages are arrived at.
Anyway, the posts and comments per day - which to me defines “activity” better than number of users, are both steady upward lines - unless fewer users who are more active is a bad trend.
it is clear that its growth is nearing a plateau in its current form.
Good! Lemmy doesn’t need to become big, especially since the less techy masses will likely put loads of load on privately hosted instances without bothering to donate.
The growth could actually kill Lemmy.I believe adopting Photon as the default UI could make Lemmy far more appealing to the average Reddit user.
Please no!
I mean, yes. And I also like the oldschool interface, it does have its iffy corners but the overall layout and UX is great.
That said, there’s a difference between “avoid (success at all costs)” and “(avoid success) at all cost”. We should be making lemmy better for the purpose of making lemmy better, we shouldn’t be changing it just to please random people so they come over.
We’re at 44k monthly active users https://lemmy.fediverse.observer/dailystats
100k or 200k wouldn’t kill the platform
I disagree. We want all people and all perspectives. Federarion needs to become the default to put enough pressure on the big tech companies to get all people on a common protocal. It is the ideal that web3.0 promised to be.
Also we need to monitise lemmy so that running an instance is profitable enough to support the usrload. I think we can do this via lemmy gold make it monero based where a golded post/comment get split between instance/community/post/comment. Align profit incentives with making federated media better for everyone.
For many users (including me), monero / crypto / web3.0 integration would be an immediate red line.
Regural payment methods would work just fine, this is a mere forum after all. If you are that concerned about people linking your username with your identity, then you might as well just skip gold / silver.
Ik people hate crypto and thats valid but monero is an objectivly better way to tranfer value than fiat currency.
Federation is literaly web3 philosophy. Fiat will destroy the decentralisation we have tryed so hard to create.
Your statement regarding monero is objectively untrue. It is far easier to use real currency. This is just objective fact.
My intention wasn’t really to argue for/against crypto. Just pointing out that for me and many other crypto integration is a no go. Take that as you will.
When the front page doesn’t have posts from over 2 days ago on it then I might say Lemmy is a good size, but it’s a pretty stagnate site.
Eh, i agree that lemmy shouldn’t grow too big (Reddit is an example of why, feels like a circlejerk of bots and reposts), but the userbase feels too small currently. On a lot of communities, The activity is 1-2 posts a week, which makes it feel quite dead. And I especially miss the niche communities that you could join on reddit, for small games or obscure topics.
Niche communities happened naturally over time on reddit as well. You need to grow the larger base communities first, since you’ll be gathering the numbers there. Then you branch off. The only other option is for you yourself to build up the niche communities by posting more often, it’s a lot of work.
Yeah, i think in general even the big communities aren’t too active, but they are the most active. We aren’t ready for niches and such. Such is the life of a lemming :(
I think the goal should be slow continuous growth. It’s a social media tool and that requires enough engaged users so it doesn’t feel dead. As you pointed out, we’re not there yet. I also think a huge jump in new users would be detrimental. Without central leadership of traffic and hardware Lemmy requires longer to respond to changes in user load. Nothing would be more detrimental to adding long term engaged users than an influx of new users that caused infrastructure overloading.
We’re very spoiled with reliability these days. People are not interested in unreliable access to their doom scrolling (myself included, unfortunately).
Yeah I remember instance hopping when I first joined Lemmy, part of the flood of new users when Reddit announced the API changes that killed mobile apps. Not one instance was working 100% of the time; I signed up on at least 4 different ones and had to keep swapping between them.
Oh, definitely. Lemmy may be smaller than most communities, but it feels organic, and more tight-knit. You see many recognizable users, there are a lot of great threads, and i think the community is pretty healthy. Other social medias may have millions of active users, but they are more focused on collecting as much internet points as possible and making their post hit off, instead of interaction with people. And it makes it feel repetitive and artificial. Main reason why i quit twitter, tired of seeing the most subpar posts from a random user with 100k likes.
And yeah, we’re more spoiled nowadays, unfortunately. When i joined lemmy, i was bored due to the low amount of daily posts, unlike reddit. I still think it’s a problem and we need more MAU, but we should also somewhat get used to it, too. Probably healthier for all of us.
I think we need to actually do some new user testing, instead of endless discussion with nothing to back it up.
For those who may not be aware there are alternative front ends available for Lemmy.
MLMYM is like old reddit. You can see what it looks like here:
mlmym.walledgarden.xyz
Voyager is multi platform interface that also offers a Lemmy frontend. Our implementation is here:
voyager.walledgarden.xyz
I am not as tech savvy as most people on Lemmy and I use voyager without any issues. I thought it was quite easy to get up and running.
