Can we talk about annotations which are broken when you upgrade spring boot ? You are asked to upgrade some old application to the newest version of spring boot, application that you discover on the spot, the application does not work anymore after the upgrade, and you have to go through 10 intermediate upgrade guides to discover what could possibly be wrong ?
Holy shit mood, described to the tee.
An application I’ve never heard or seen before that needs to be upgraded, and it breaks, so you now need to understand what the hell this application does so you can fix it properly.
And the management not getting why it takes so long to « just update some version numbers in Pom.xml files »…
Gradle, with it’s transitive dependency modifications is a huge pain in this area.
It used to be that if a library ended up having a flaw then it would be flagged and we would get the dependency updated. These days security block the “security risk” and you have to replace your dependencies dependency. Fingers crossed you can get it to actually test all the code paths.
If an second level project gets a flaw, and it’s used indirectly then we should really look at getting the import updated so that we know it works. If that import is abandoned then we should not be updating that second level dependency, either adopt and fix the first level dependency or look at an alternative.
Spring annotations in general. There’s a completely hidden bean context where every annotation seems to throw interceptors, filters, or some reflection crap into. Every stacktrace is 200 lines of garbage, every app somehow needs 500mb for just existing and if you add something with a very narrow scope, that suddenly causes something completely unrelated to stop working.
Realistically, DI and all the Spring crap does not add anything but complexity.
Our Spring service was so simple until we decided we needed annotations to handle the fetching of settings. Now we are corrupted with needless reflection.
Tell me more about these beans
I’ll never plaster the back of my car with stickers that all proclaim the same things in ALL CAPS.
But if I was going to…
It would pretty much match this meme.
My favourite take on DI is this set of articles from like 12 years ago, written by a guy who has written the first DI framework for Unity, on which are the currently popular ones, such as Zenject, based on.
The first two articles are pretty basic, explaining his reasoning and why it’s such a cool concept and way forward.
Then, there’s this update:
Followed by more articles about why he thinks it was a mistake, and he no longer recommends or uses DI in Unity in favor of manual dependency injection. And I kind of agree - his main reasoning is that it’s really easy for unnecessary dependencies to sneak up into your code-base, since it’s really easy to just write another [Inject] without a second thought and be done with it.
However, with manual dependency injection through constructor parameters, you will take a step back when you’re adding 11th parameter to the constructor, and will take a moment to think whether there’s really no other better way. Of course, this should not be an relevant issue with experienced programmers, but it’s not as inherently obvious you’re doing something potentially wrong, when you just add another [Inject], when compared to adding another constructor parameter.
Exactly. Dependency injection is good; if you need a framework to do it, you’re probably doing it wrong; if your framework is too magical, you’re probably not even doing it at all anymore.
I think this might be the first of these I’ve seen where pretty much all the comments are just agreement.
Why yes, I would like my stack traces to make no ffing sense! I’m so glad you asked.
We’re struggling to deal with climate change and these selfish developers can think of nothing except building more factories. This is a global issue, we need a global solution: eschew factories and services for defining everything globally.
As an audio engineer, I was very confused about what this had to do with Direct Injection for a second.
Hello inject me with beans please
not again
Yeah, I’d rather get injeancted with beans.
I fucking hate Spring.
The quickest way to get a team of 10 contractors to turn 100 lines of basic code from a decent engineer into 2k, with 50 janky vulnerable dependencies, that needs to be babied with customized ide’s and multi-minute+ build times and 60m long recorded meetings.
Fuck Spring.
Fuck Spring.
Actually, there’s a lot to be said for being able to configure your spleamtomoter without needing to reverse the polarity on the stack cache rotator arm.
I’m kidding.
Fuck Spring.
Wouldn’t want to write a webserver / database connection / scheduler / etc. from scratch. That plus lombok turns 2k lines of code into 100.
Sure… That"s what libraries are for. No one hand-rolls that stuff. You can do all of that just fine (and, actually, in a lot less code, mostly because Java is so fucking verbose) without using the nightmare that is Spring.
… Looks both ways…
Python does the same in 10 lines of code.
… Ducks under a table to avoid the ensuring flames …
I replaced the P in my LAMP stand with Python and I’ve never been happier.
Same here.
They say he’s still ducking to this day
Yep. That’s why we call it “duck typing” in Python.
They can do that in any season
Ok, you win! 😁 😂
At work we have a lot of old monolithic OOP PHP code. Dependency injection has been the new way to do things since before I started and it’s basically never used anywhere.
I assume most people just find it easier to create a new class instance where it’s needed.
I’ve never really seen a case where I think, “dependency injection would be amazing here” I assume there is a case otherwise it wouldn’t exist.
As a fellow PHP dev (working in laminas specifically) DI actually is fucking awful, there’s a distinction between a service factory pattern and this thing called DI which is similar to a service factory pattern but uses reflection based type sniffing to guess at which service you want where. I’d considered making a reference to it but PHP developers are few and far between these days.
There are dozens of us
XML is the second worst programming language ever created by humans
It’s a markup language, not a programming language.
It was a markup language until someone decided to parse and execute it as a programming language. This person should be watched for other deranged behavior.
I use XML as markup language, what kind of deranged person thought to turn it into a programming language? My problems with the Lua API led me down the rabbit hole of making my own VM and implementation, not looking at a markup languge, then go “what if I used this for scripting?”.
When they make XML do these things (or the way Github Actions does it with YAML), they’re essentially creating a representation of the AST that the compiler would make internally from a mini language. So there’s a few possibilities:
- They don’t know how compilers work and reach for a tool they do know
- They know, but figure the problem at hand doesn’t need the complexity of a mini language and start the project the quick and dirty way, and it gets out of hand as they add features
- They may or may not know, but they do get caught up in the hype of some other tool (likely what happened with XSLT)
Like yaml/toml
The one benefit of toml is that nobody creates a programing language over it.
so far
The one benefit of toml is that nobody creates a programing language over it.
Heh. Any day though, right? I can’t wait to see an excited presentation on code-free coding in YAML…
Github Actions have entered the chat.
Thanks. I hate that you’re right.
Tell that to SOAP.
Yo dawg, I heard you like XML over HTTP so I put XML over HTTP in your XML over HTTP.
Whoosh
Seriously though, spring configurations are written in XML and you create variables, call functions, and have control flow. Effectively turning XML into a horrible twisted shadow of a programming language.
All in the name of “configurability” through dependency injection.
So if you take XML, pervert it beyond recognition, cut off it’s balls and one hand, then it’s somehow it’s fault that it sucks?
They started from XML. There’s nowhere to go but up but spring managed to fuck even that up.
FactoryStrategyFactoryFactoryObserverInterface
Friends don’t let friends use Java 😜
Spring moved away from XML ages ago. I work on a 6 year old Spring project and it has never had a single line of XML in it.
I’m fond of saying that all great code earns it’s right to become good code by starting as trash…
But I still think we should all quietly and politely let Spring die a simple dignified death, as soon as possible.
Out of wildly morbid curiosity, do Maven and Ant still shit all over each other to make sure no one has any real idea what the build inputs and outputs are?
I shouldn’t ask things I don’t really want to know, though. My inbox is gonna be full of Java apologists.
No idea, I’ve never used either of those tools.
I think some people still use Maven, but I use Gradle in all of mine. Gradle build files are written in Kotlin instead of XML like Maven.
Thanks, my works’ codebase feels old now.
I’m gonna need a bell curve hooded figure meme template of this comment, this is comedy gold.
Good luck deciding where each opinion goes.
Standard shitpost and then out of nowhere “Hello inject me with beans please”
WHY IS IT SO FUNNY
I inject myself with beans every morning, usually French press
DI: ☺️
DI frameworks: 😒
I just DI all the time, it’s called a constructor.
I love dependency injection personally.
I managed to completely change how YARP routed requests by registering a single interface.
The flexibility it provides is awesome. And it makes testing so much easier.
