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most 3d printing is done with PLA which doesn’t create microplastics.
although other 3d printing materials can create.
I don’t think the 3d printers out there are a significant producer of plastic waste in the grand scheme of things. They can actually prevent a lot of waste by making replacement parts or fixing something to meet a new use case.
But the narrative that they were going to revolutionize everything comes out of this idea that things are generally improved by the production of more stuff, more niche gizmos and doodads. It is a facet of the thinking behind over consumption.
Often that kind of thinking even gets in the way of implementing solutions to real problems. Much easier to sell people on an ineffective solution based in more stuff than a solution that requires them to alter their life style or accept a little inconvenience.
3d printers are just tools, but the idea that new tools are all that is needed to solve issues is a huge problem.
this idea that things are generally improved by the production of more stuff, more niche gizmos and doodads. It is a facet of the thinking behind over consumption.
Yeah like look at all the consumer tech we have now, and are we any happier? There’s a cruel optimism to chasing these gewgaws.
There’s that, and also looking at “technology” (in the general sense) as this messianic thing that will eventually save us all if we just keep accelerating and inventing things and crashing forward into the future — we’ll eventually tumble into the beautiful green glade at the end of history where nothing hurts and all is harmonious — all without ever having to do any messy introspection or trying to solve our problems with what we have right now.
Anyway it’s foolish. But I blame the owners more than the consumers.
Most of the guys I know who have 3d printers are so eager to have someone ask them to make a specific thing for them on the 3d printer, and it’s always really practical makes.
That’s me. Sort of. Don’t get me wrong, my wife is rapidly running out of room in her office for all the cute animals I have printed for her (that she didn’t ask for, I just surprise her with them sometimes 😅).
But I’ve rapidly reached the stage where I want to print but have covered most of my own needs for printed stuff. So any time anyone asks if I can print something, I’m thrilled.
Yeah I’ve done a couple prints for friends or relatives. My most recent print is a simple miny peg-chess set so I can learn from my chess books with a physical board and pieces.
Not exactly practical, but still useful.
I’ve successfully solved several real life problems with my printer, and it’s always nice to find something practical to make or fix.
Is there a reason the board is 3 colours?
So that’s a fun story. The light squares and pieces are all printed from the same color changing filament.
I printed all the squares first, after putting them in, I realized I was missing one. And I was already printing the pieces. After removing several of the squares from the board in preparation for replacing them, I found the one I thought I lost (or didn’t print). Sadly removing the squares ruined several of them. So I was locked into replacing with newly printed squares. And because it’s color changing filament, they’re different from the second print.
Anywho. Long, boring, (turns out not fun at all) story. But I thought it looked pretty cool in the end.
IDK, but it certainly looks aesthetically pleasing, to me at least.
For 3D chess?
It’s tools and behavior that will produce change. If we have the tools but fail to change consumer behavior, overall change will be negligible.
If I use a 3d printer to print all the replacement parts I would have had to order specially otherwise, I am benefitting from the tool. But if those facilities keep making the parts I used to order, and the market overall focuses on ordering rather than making, not much environmental benefit is made from me not having things shipped to my door.
That doesn’t condemn the tool or the market, but the problem is this technology can’t have greater impact unless it changes consumer behavior at a critical mass, rather than just hobbyists.
I like 3d printers because they allow me to make my mechanical contraptions extremely fast and with ease comparing to, say, cutting them from wood. None of the stuff I make is going to revolutionize the world, but that was never the goal for me.
I highly doubt that 3D printing of all things is making any meaningful contribution to the microplastics problem. Plastics are absolutely everywhere, so it feels weird to pin blame on a small group of enthusiasts just making silly shit at very low volumes.
I fucken repair shit with 3D printed parts so that I don’t need to buy new shit.
How often do you break things that can only be repaired with 3D-printed parts? I once printed a fridge handle that was a very specific shape. Other than that it’s zip-ties or glue.
Smaller electronics that rely on special plastic clasps or hinges, think ITX computer cases or something like a game console or laptop. 3D printers are nice because then you don’t have to play Ebay part roulette or hope someone manufactures the particular part that snapped in half.
I have a semi related question to this: how do you create the CAD files for these things? It seems to me that to build highly accurate replacement parts, you need a highly accurate model of what broke. Do you just take a bunch of measurements, then do your best to guess and check? Is there a process to this, or what does this look like?
I ask because I make stuff with leather and am getting into making my own designs and patterns, but figuring out corners and curves with Fusion 360 is not intuitive for me. I have a project to make a Birkenstock sandal coming up, but the idea of making a piece of leather that will fit a person’s foot seems challenging and will involve lots of measurements, and a bit of guess and check unless a kind stranger on the Fediverse has insights into such things.
There was an obscure YouTube video I saw some months back that had someone doing this for her education. I’ll see if I can find it. She had techniques to deal with these issues, including printing foam soles.
Awesome, thank you! I’ll check it out after work today :)
I take measurements and guess and check from there. If I’m not sure I usually print just the portions that need to fit together to make adjustments from there. Usually it’s only one or two revisions to get something usable.
That’s a good idea, thanks!
Not only that but most 3D printing is done with PLA which doesn’t generate meaningful microplastics. I mean, it does but they only last a short time out in the wild. A study funded by the state of California found that PLA will last up to three years of left out in the environment (e.g. not in a trash dump).
Three years is nothing. Also consider that many animals can eat and digest PLA. Furthermore, if it ends up in your body it will eventually be broken down.
The real microplastics problem comes from tires and plastics like ABS that are used in f’ing everything. ABS microplastics last like 400 years or something like that.
Other plastics last even longer but the studies I’ve looked at all suggest the same thing: Tires and ABS.
Even PET water bottles aren’t as bad because they only last 80-100 years (until *fully" broken down). That sounds like a long time but also consider that PET fibers are mostly inert and don’t seem to absorb and re-release nasty things like ABS.
Don’t get me wrong: PET microplastics (which mostly consist of tiny fibers from textiles—not from bottles) are 100% a problem. They’re just a fraction of the problem of everything else.
For reference, the biggest problem with PET fibers is that they float and can be carried by the wind. That means they tend to settle on top of soil which causes it to absorb more heat and retain less moisture… Requiring more watering. Whereas the butawhateverthefucktoxicshit that tires break down into can result in soil that’s harmful to life (in general). Enough of it and nothing will grow at all.
That’s why you rarely see weeds sprouting up from kids playgrounds that were filled with chopped up car tires. Well, that and the fact that they can get really hot.
It’s the individual responsibility argument of environmentalism all over again. It’s mostly large corporations dictating law to do very intentional things at often incomprehensible scales that is responsible for the vast majority of pollution, and it’s those same large corporations which promulgated the notion that environmentalism is everyone’s equal responsibility and if you don’t recycle your plastic bottles or drink through a paper straw you’re the problem.
This isn’t to say that individuals should not be environmentally conscientious, but it shifts the blame to be woefully incongruous with reality and leads to individualist virtue contests like this post.
It’s not that deep I just wanted to satyrize 3d printer enthusiasts cause it’s funny
Oh yeah no shade on you, it made good ground for thought/discussion.
I agree with this sentiment, but at the same time the only reason these companies exist is because people pay them to do what they do; therefore, individual responsibility is simply to not buy dumb shit you don’t need. Thrift stores are a great place for environmentalism, as one item purchased there is one item that isn’t made new. More people doing so will turn the economy more and more into a circular economy where goods simply change hands locally rather than created on the other side of the planet and moved to the other side of the planet.
Behind every company (or group of companies) destroying the environment, there’s a clueless consumer paying them to do it.
get outta here with your “individual responsibility” bullshit. Free market capitalism prevents such individual considerations from making a difference. So long as you’re allowed to act unethically with no cost, unethical behavior will be a common strategy. The only real way to change things is for unethical behavior to be the least profitable option for individuals, otherwise the mechanics of markets necessitate it will happen on mass.
We aren’t dealing with individual choices, but evolutionary selection pressures. If you think in terms of “individuals” or “responsibility” you’ll never come close to addressing the problem.
Honestly, I think “voting with your dollars” is equally as bullshit a propagandized myth as “environmentalism is everyones equal responsibility”. And just like the latter, I don’t mean that you shouldn’t always be trying to do the right thing for ecology when you can as an individual. I mean more that these ideas are designed to route us away from actions that can be truly effective, which strike at the root of the institutional problem, such as abolishing economic policies that create situations where corporations can externalize their waste onto the world in the first place. You simply cannot get to such a state by “dollar voting” or selective consumer boycotts. Definitely do promote living in a way that limits your individual impact, within reason, just don’t delude yourself into thinking that is any sort of solution to the issue itself. You are forced to be a liberal consumer, and so long as the institution remains, that is what you will remain. I think we have much more to gain by rallying around the common enemy of capitalism and corporatism than we do in shaming or otherwise pressuring our peers to restrict their own personal economic choices even further than they have already been. Because we really aren’t just “clueless consumers”, none of us are. We are individuals with needs, wants, fears, stresses, worries… And if we are presented with actions to take they really need to be actions that lead to meaningful change rather than ones that just cultivate self-resentment.
I don’t hate 3d printers I think they’re an awesome technology, but enthusiasts sure love printing bullshit
It’s easier to print bullshit than to learn cad. I’m learning to model by printing gridfinity organizers. It’s easy and practical. I waste less time searching for junk and waste more time modeling the bins. 👍
I think at least 80% of my printing is organizers.
I think using 3d printing as a way of learning CAD is great! Definitely a great learning tool for kids and students and such and also adults
I think I just view people who print other people’s designs for silly reasons in the same way that I view GenAI prompters who call themselves artists unironically. Like, my guy, you just pressed enter and something else did all the work. Use it as a tool to extend your creativity if you want, not as a substitute! You’re not a bad person if you use it as a substitute, it’s just confusing to me and seems like a waste of time and resources
But then again, I’m basically just saying “stop having fun” so I don’t really think it’s that much of an issue
I feel really uncomfortable in the online maker space at times. It’s filled with crypto bros and zionists. One of the most downloaded prints one week was one of Trump assassination attempt. Can’t tell if it’s to grift or keep. Unnerving community.
You know, I finally got into 3D printing after putting it off for years, and I think you’re right. Part of why I was hesitant to start was that all tech is just expensive here in Lebanon, and it’s not always easy to source good filament that hasn’t been slurping moisture in a shop for five years.
I was watching a video by a (seemingly American) channel I wasn’t very familiar with, and he just dropped a “here in Israel, due to the war, we haven’t been able to…” very casually before complaining about something “war-related” that I experience all the time. Maybe electrical blackouts, or interrupted shipping, or lack of parts, or whatever. But he was still showing new products, was still getting free stuff from sponsors… huh. I don’t necessarily have anything against him as a person, but it was weird to see how easy it was for him. Most online shops don’t ship here. I know from some friends who do YouTube as a side thing that even shitty little scam sponsors won’t touch you if you send them wire instructions for a Lebanese bank. So, I don’t know. I frankly don’t think it’s that bad, I haven’t seen too many (vocal) genocide fans. There might just be a proportionally large 3D printing scene there.
Now the crypto bro stuff… That’s a whole thing. Right as crypto was becoming something my parents would ask me about, a lot of non-technical people around me were taking up roles in fintech. Think CS graduates you’d expect to work in technical but not super difficult job. This was in the middle of an economic abyss here so you know people were getting taken advantage of and getting paid in “digital assets” or whatever. And these guys would proudly call themselves Web3 professionals or founders etc. These were the same guys who should know better because they understand what crypto actually is, but they were (or at least pretended to be) drinking the Kool-Aid. And that terrified me - and it also helped me understand the clear distinction between a “tech bro” and an actual “tech person” (and actual “bros” in tech - which do exist and don’t suck ass!)
This was also around the time I started reading a bit of HN, where I also found these tech-related takes that were very different from how I saw the world. The folks around me in tech that I was friends with tended to be more anarchist-flavored. I don’t use HN at all now.
One thing I despise about the 3D printing “scene” now is the huge volume of print farm slop. I’ll be watching a video on YouTube about something basic like how to counteract ringing on my printer. The algorithm then doesn’t just suggest more beginner tuning and cool experimental stuff, oh no. It suggests videos about print farms, often run by people who are clearly not technical/enthusiasts. They just have walls of machines pumping out objects I couldn’t fathom anyone buying. Like I’ve used a commercial 3D printing service before for prototyping, print farms have a place (especially if I want to print in a material that would be risky or hard to print at home), but like generic looking little vases? Why? There’s also all the low quality models people pump out, and apparently maker fairs are having trouble with people selling generic prints and undercutting handmade stuff… Like maybe if you’re there to model stuff for someone, that’s great, but this isn’t it.
This is why I was sure I found the right instance when one of the key things that resonated with me in the signup process was something about not wanting to monetize hobbies. And I think that’s what separates those people from me. I can enjoy things because I enjoy them. My hobbies belong to me.
So fuck the vultures because those people are always going to suck the marrow out of any good tech. The grifters will always be there before you, any time something new becomes useful. I’ve also found that the 3D printing community has also been very diligent in making sure companies contribute to open source ever since the RepRap big bang of modern printing, and that most people you meet tend to be cool folks who print cool stuff. There’s a lot of good, too.
What’s that glove thingy good for?
It’s a cast for injuries.
Now you tell me what the bottom thing is supposed to be.
It’s an impossibly large gearbox. Even smaller ones would take decades of turning the first cog to move the last one.
Thank you. I’ve seen this post so many times, and this is the first time someone’s said what that was.
Are you saying you move the first one and it takes years before the last one moves? Meanwhile all the ones in between are moving the whole time? That sounds impossible!
It’s because of gear ratios. For each movement of the first gear , the second only moves a fraction of that, let’s say 1/20th. If the first gear moves at 1 full rotation a second, the next gear moves 1 rotation every 20 seconds, the next 1 every 400 seconds, and so forth. It adds up quite quickly, the tenth gear would take 16,235 years to make a full rotation in my example.
The picture above may or may not need more time than could exist in the universe to see any moment in that last gear.
No, you’d turn the first one then the second would only move a fraction of the amount, and the third would only move a fraction of that amount, and so on.
Until friction and tolerances cancel out any kind of movement. A gearbox with as many stages as the one in the picture, the torque required to start moving the last gear is bigger than the first gear can handle.
I like 3d modeling cute lil creatures and printing them ;_;
This seems a bit strawman to me, no? The people who are doing crazy builds with hundreds of parts are often doing it specifically for your social media impression. Most of the stuff I print on my Prusa is small parts for my bikes or my car. Little missing pieces of fixtures around the house. If I’m ever printing something feckless it’s because a friend really wanted a 3d articulated slug. I will say though, the waste plastic from edges, supports, failed builds, etc adds up over time and it’s dead-end waste like most other plastic. I have several paper grocery bags full of the stuff. But that’s exactly why I don’t like printing feckless crap.
I MUST see a video of those gears running
Iirc thats a device that exponentially turns slower and slower. Something like gear 1 turns every second and the last gear will move 1 tooth every 100 billion years or something stupid like that
Conversely, turn the gear at the other end and see the first one move at warp speed for a second before it all comes undone or friction welds itself in place.
People often use biodegradabble printing substances so that’s not that big of an issue. (Sometimes)
I thought for a long time that PLA was biodegradable, but turns out it isnt really. It doesnt compost in nature, it just breaks apart into microplastic. It needs active heated industrial composting to actually degrade into something harmless.
