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You give them far, far too much credit.
Unless they came out of 15-year coma just in time for the election and voted purely on name recognition, they knew exactly what they were voting for, and why.
No Trump voter is casual unless they literally closed their eyes and scribbled randomly on the ballot
Of course there are. My neighbor is one. A simple minded idiot, conned by the lies and the cult of personality. But, if you talked to him, you’d never think for a second that he’d vote for Trump.
Their eyes are still closed. Unless you walk up to that neighbor in the next day or so and show him the clip, he won’t see it or believe it.
Hell, it’s already too late and your neighbor is probably already making excuses about how Elon Musk is just sharing his hearts energy or some shit.
Then what? I must know more about OP’s neighbor!
Absolutely nothing changes. The “closed eyes” people are just as bad as the actual fascists, because they’re enablers.
It was a roman salute
Yeah okay
Look, the shitty excuses already began.
In 2008 Polish court really acquitted three members of ONR, most prominent Polish neonazi organisation on exactly this excuse.
Its a two party system and plenty of people looked at the options, decided “I’m going to vote for the least bad candidate”, and went with Trump.
That’s in part because Haris’s campaign sucked shit (she spent more time on the trail with Liz Cheney than her own VP), in part because Biden’s “booming” economy couldn’t seemed to rectify the same escalating wealth imbalance we’ve been drowning in since Ford/Carter, in part because generations of voter disenfranchisement have stacked the deck against liberals, and in part because 15M D voters didn’t show up between 2020 and 2024.
But the idea that “casual” voters of any strip don’t exist really ignores how many Obama-Trump-Biden-Trump voters just flit in the wind based on however they’re feeling at a given moment.
What’s more, if the US has an underlying ideology, it tends toward fascism. Liberals don’t want to grapple with that, so they end up offering up half-a-fascism to the moderate voter and telling the Radical Antifa Leftists to pound sand every four years.
I really don’t like Elon musk and I am convinced that he cares little about anyone but himself. He is a liar and a fraud. His Morals are clearly 100% motivated by profit. He seems sexist and classist.
Trump is obviously classist and seemingly racist (the difference between racist and classist isn’t always so obvious)
I really really don’t like both of them.
But I don’t think Elon did a salute. To me, (especially as he did it twice) it seems like he moves his hand to his heart and then “throws” it out to the audience. Would be on brand for Zuckerberg, very alien. But “innocent”. I guess, you could argue that it is a dog whistle and he wants deniability.
Honestly, It doesn’t matter to me. A bad man is a bad man.
if you dont mean to defend/apologise for musk. why did you even take the time to write this? As a german who studied the ns-regieme a lot in their life let me (and pretty much every expert on that issue who commented on that) tell you that this is a clear nazi solute. not greatly executed, the führer would have been dissapointed, but it features all the elements to that salute. as i suspect elon has a pr team, and ‘educated’ himself on the holocaust in Oświęcim, id say it is impossible he didnt know and accidentally mimiced it in that detail.
I also know a lot about the NS Regime. For similar reasons than you, I assume. The execution is so bad that I just don’t believe it is. But I am happy to admit that I am not aware of the connection between the event and Oświęcim, without assuming that it was a salute. Could you explain that to me, please?
Look, I get it mistakes happen. If a reasonable person had done something that might have given the wrong impression, they would have been like “sorry that was not my intent, I apologize to those that got offended”.
This is not what Musk did AFTER being called out.
So, fuck this. This was a Nazi salute. Don’t believe the gaslighting.
That’s not how you throw something though
I agree but it isn’t how you do a “proper” “Hilter salute” either. I am just saying what I am seeing and I am making no claims that he is doing that. It is in my opinion like I say a very alien motion.
Your mental gymnastics are Olympic class
Which mental gymnastics? Seriously, please point them out to me.
Video evidence of him throwing a Nazi salute; side-by-side comparison of him and Hitler throwing the same salute; he’s boosting the fucking NAZI PARTY in Germany, but i don’t think he means it, guys!
Oh I believe he is a racist and a classist. The execution is just so horrible that I don’t believe that it was. Could you share the video with me? That could help me to see what you see. I have seen many documentaries (it is a popular topic on German tv) but I just don’t currently see it. It is not like I studied how exactly Hilter did the salute.
It was in another of the many threads discussing this topic. I’ll link it if i can find it.
Hey,
Someone posted this comment. Is it this video? Thanks for your effort!
That wasn’t the one, but it gets the point across.
Oh ok. Thanks for your effort! Have a nice day!
But I don’t think Elon did a salute.
Okay, hear me out. What if the apartheidist xenophobe far-right suck-up with the media machine that front-pages Nazi shit on the regular… what if his arm just did that?
He certainly sucks up to far-right parties. If that should have been a salute then I am honestly shocked by the poor execution. Someone can be a horrible person without all their motion to be motivated by their horrible nature. Sometimes they are weird. And don’t tell me Elon is not a fucking weirdo too.
It has been known to happen.
Bullies know to be bullies.
That is, assuming they have the ability to self-reflect
Lol. They don’t think white supremacy is bad.
And those that do gaslight themselves into saying that’s not what it was
That implies Trump supporters have any introspection. The only thing they think in a mirror is “Haha, im a gigachad who triggers da libs with my maga hat!”
No, they’re not smart enough to have that realization.
I had to have the “It’s just a difference of opinion” conversation for the probably 12th time yesterday. I’m so fucking tired of it.
It’s not just a different opinion when you’re supporting a rapist bigot who wants to allow corporations to destroy the environment and harm LGBT people and countless other shitty things. All he does is spout hate. That’s what you’re supporting. Fuck you.
Yes
Twinning
I have a feeling that if you watch the actual video of those events, you’ll find some differences in the movement of their arms.
I watched both. And neither were actual Nazi salutes.
Democrats don’t care. They’d rather live in a fake reality. Joe Biden helped fund a literal genocide but they didn’t care about that one bit. They like to believe everyone else is stupid & they are incredibly smart, and to blame everyone but themselves for losing.
What is your point exactly? Trump says Biden didnt help Israel commit enough genocide and wasn’t supporting US allies enough lmao. It’s literally what lost him the election because democrats cared to show dems they won’t put up for it, lesser evil blabla
Trump is also about to start another genocide in Ukraine to help is buddies Putin and Kim. When your quality of life drastically changes, I’m sure it’s going to Biden and Obamas fault still while Trump swallows taxpayer money in his pockets and sells national secrets
Genocide ? Oh you mean NATO-imperialism Oh riiiight
I guess Democrats should have picked a candidate that had the moral high ground then. Nothing you said matters when Biden helped fund mass murder & Kamala Cheney couldn’t think of anything she’d do differently, other than putting Republicans in her cabinet
So you agree then.
“When Biden helped fund a mass murder”.
Tell me you don’t know what a president does without telling me you don’t know what a president does.
The president doesn’t allocate the funds. Americans love genocide (and the industrial military complex) so congress spent the money. Israel is an ally of the United States, not of Biden, and Israel has Trumps full support (especially if they rent empty rooms in his hotel). I guess you don’t want to talk about the last time Trump left military allies to die in because Putin asked him.
Israel wasn’t an ally of, “I’m a proud Zionist,” Biden? You do realize that Biden administration continually vetoed resolutions in favor of Israel… that Anthony Blinken ignored even the US’s own advisors saying that there was a humanitarian crisis? You do realize Biden can veto bills as well? That Biden could have put pressure on Israel & not publicly claim unconditional support of Israel?
Trump is also about to start another genocide in Ukraine
(X) DoubtRemindMe! 6 months
That’s not even the right syntax for the Reddit bot 😆
Yeah want to be reminded dude said “new healthcare coming in 2 weeks” for 4 years while tearing through the system making money? Nahh, i bet in 6 months you won’t want to talk about Ukraine either.
Let’s not forget he already tried to fuck Ukraine in his last presidency, AND said he would have ended the war in Ukraine already by just not funding Ukraine and letting Russia win. You might want to set a reminder for 6 months he’s a Russian puppet who has already been caught leaking national secrets, and made himself king to avoid the consequences.
Democrat here and guess who I blame? ＴＨＥ ＰＥＯＰＬＥ ＷＨＯ ＶＯＴＥＤ ＦＯＲ ＨＩＭ. And sure enough, they do sure damn well seem dumber than a box of rocks.
I guess Democrats are doomed for eternity then if you want to blame a majority of voters, rather than figure out why Democrats lost so many votes.
If I push a dog out of a moving car, who’s responsible for the dog falling? Probably me since I pushed the dog.
Since Trump won the popular vote (this time), whose fault is it that he’s now president?
I didn’t vote for him so I’m confused as to how it’s my fault.
Did you vote for the the genocide supporter Kamala Cheney?
Of course they, they deserve to lose with this kind of attitude
Damn. You’re a special kind of stupid huh
You clearly don’t even know what a true Nazi salute looks like and it’s definitely not that. None of them are grabbing their heart first like that. But good work trying to seed misinformation/disinformation.
Lay off the copium, you’ve had enough
What do you imagine his intent could have been when twice performing a gesture that the majority of people will identify as a Nazi salute, other than him performing a Nazi salute?
Elon literally does the hand on heart thing before the salute wtf are you on right now
https://www.youtube.com/live/GE0jmgGF0yk?t=2131
She’s clearly gesturing the idea of ‘looking ahead’ and ‘out there’. She had been doing so for a while, but the screen grab only grabs the one gesture where her hand happens to be flat.
Elon’s was clearly a salute, particularly since what he said his action was as he was doing it is the definition of a salute.
I want to thank you for making it happen
*salutes*
My heart goes out to you
~ Musksalute 1 a: to address with expressions of kind wishes, courtesy, or honor. b: to give a sign of respect, courtesy, or goodwill to [greet] 2 to become apparent to (one of the senses) 3 a: to honor (a person, a nation, an event, etc.) by a conventional military or naval ceremony b: to show respect and recognition to (a military superior) by assuming a prescribed position c: to express commendation of [praise]
They’re the majority of the membership of our trade unions and military. Most are there because they didn’t have the fiscal and educational opportunities that others had.
For nearly a decade they’ve perceived no practical alternative means but to remain committed to orange “literally anything else”. Practical alternatives means of change exist, especially outside of electoral means.
Who should be teaching them about their practical alternative means of change?
Can they be subsequently trusted to wisely choose for themselves?
Nice, ChatGPT.
Zero fucking patience for liberals calling trump supporters nazis.
Maybe don’t do Nazi salutes then. Zero empathy for you and your Nazi friends.
Why are you drawing the line on the symbolic representations of nazism when you’re complicit in a genocide?
The hand gesture isn’t the problem with nazis. The thing you did is.
Are you fucking deluded or something?? YOU COMMITTED A GENOCIDE. So you got your fucking magnifying glass and slide rule out and managed to find a way to rhetorically say trump is still bad? No one’s arguing he isn’t bad you cynical piece of shit.
YOU COMMITTED A GENOCIDE
I didn’t think it would only take a day for the tankies to throw their lot in with Trump with so much enthusiasm. I figured they’d pretend for a little longer at least.
No one’s arguing he isn’t bad you cynical piece of shit
You’re a fucking idiot. Learn to read before you speak or shut the fuck up.
You check in with Vlad before you go near any windows.
Cope harder
Just please make it clear what you want me to cope over.
A hundred thousand dead children, right? That’s what your snarky fucking attitude is directed towards, you fucking nazi piece of shit, right?
I am not denying the genocide dear person, i am just saying that you have no right to defend whatever is going on right now
Starts the thread complaining about Trump and musk being appropriately called Nazis, ends the thread calling everyone who disagrees Nazis.
🤌 Chef’s kiss. You’re the Simone Biles of mental gymnastics.
Shure because that random person on lemmy commited a genocide. You dont even know where they are from or what thier polirical leanings are
You’re trying to deflect. It’s classic maga tactics. You don’t want to feel bad for voting for a Nazi so you claim Biden caused a genocide. The problem with this is multifactorial. First Biden didn’t campaign on causing genocide. So voters for him are not complicit. Second Biden is handling an altercation between two nations. The US has historically been pro Israel. Third we’re critical of Biden for this issue. Trump ran on fascist ideas. You voted for him based on these ideas. He’s enacting those ideas. And now his daddy is on stage heiling the Reich. Do you think Russia is committing genocide in Ukraine?
Oh hey, straight up genocide denial being upvoted on Lemmy. Very cool.
“Biden didn’t campaign on causing a genocide so it doesn’t count”
“It’s not a genocide it’s a conflict between two nations”
+11 -5
Lemmy is a nazi bar
Just give up. You can’t win here. I also hate the near perfect echo-chamber liberals have here on lemmy, but there’s nothing to get out of arguing here.
I just wish they’d leave their crying out of memes…
You just spent all of your political capital supporting a genocide. You aren’t better than them. You are objectively worse.
Cowards downvoting without speaking. Do I detect shame? Or am I giving you too much credit?
Now Im wondering whether your either a troll or just seriously misguided. like what do you get out of accusing random people on lemmy, who you assume are liberals fore being responsible for the palestinisn genocide. Like maybe that is easy compared to taking direct action and organizing.
If you’re getting up in arms over me shouting at people who supported a genocide you are self selecting as one of those people. So fucking spare me the civility trolling that I’m throwing strays.
Interaction with you is worth less than the cost of a downvote.
Well good for you! You got to watch inferior brown skinned infants die in a bombed out hospital AND get a quippy vapid comeback to an internet argument! You must be over the fucking moon.
Sadly, anyone who would vote for him is incapable of this level of self reflection.
What they’re incapable of is recognizing that ‘the badies’ (Nazis) is something they should avoid.
The problem isn’t that they don’t know they’re evil, it’s that they fucking love it.
They’re in a media ecosystem that just won’t talk about this stuff. FOX News and Drudge Report are going to run a thousand “Random Black Person Acts Scary!” headlines before you’ve had your coffee, then lead into the latest Musk scandal with “Very Jewish Very Not-Fascist ADL says Elon Actually Cool And Good”.
This isn’t a question of self-reflection nearly so much as it is an accumulation of priors from outside sources.
Unsurprising that the ADL swept in to defend him.
They’re called the apartheid defense league for a reason
100%. Zionists have always had ties to the Nazi Party.
