I just started playing COD Black Ops Cold War because I got it through my PlayStation Plus subscription and wanted to try it out. I’ve previously played some others like Modern Warfare (1 and 2) and WWII. While it always felt a bit over the top and propaganda-ish, I really liked it for the blockbuster feeling and just turning your mind off and enjoying the set pieces. However, Cold War has a section in Vietnam and I suddenly started feeling really uncomfortable and just turned the game off.
In WWII you can easily feel like the “defender”, and even Modern Warfare felt like fighting a very specific organisation that wanted to kill millions. Here however it just becomes so hard to explain why I’m happily mowing down hundreds of clearly Vietnamese locals that I was unable to turn my mind off and just enjoy the spectacle.
I turned to the internet and started browsing and found this article and I really agree with what the author is saying.
I don’t know if I will be continuing the campaign or not, but I just feel that I don’t want to support these kinds of minimizations of military interventions.
I just wish there were more high budget / setpiece games that don’t glorify real life wars. Spec Ops The Line was amazing in that sense, but it’s also quite old already.
I would love to hear your opinions on this subject.
Perhaps my memory is clouded, as it has been a long time since I had played a Call of Duty game, but I believe there was a time when most of it felt anti-war, in that you would die frequently and often, then be shown a quote that was about how there are no winners in war, providing a sharp contrast between the actions you were taking and the grin reality of what was occuring. After I believe Modern Warfare 2, the CEOs of Infinity War stepped down, and since then the quotes stopped being more anti-war, and much more pro-war, highlighting heroism and such in the quotes. I always viewed it as a studio change and just stopped playing after that, feeling the games were just missing the mark and farming more and more of that sweet multiplayer money.
The beginning of the “campaign” in Battlefield 1 was really good about this.
SPOILERS AHEAD ^(I know there are spoiler tags, but they don’t work on my app.)
Opening begins with the following:
Battlefield 1 is based upon events that unfolded over one hundred years ago.
More than 60 million soldiers fought in “The War to End All Wars”.
It ended nothing. Yet it changed the world forever.
What follows is frontline combat.
You are not expected to survive.
You’re then thrown into the start of a regular battle. This is the game, right? Cool, let’s shoot some bad guys.
Nope. Doesn’t matter how good you are, you will die. After you get killed, the name of the soldier and how many years he’d lived are shown on-screen.
Then you switch perspectives to a different kind of battle (eg. artillery, air, tank, etc.). Same thing. This goes on a few times.
Eventually you reach a point where it’s just you, face to face with a lone German soldier, your rifles pointed at each other. Both soldiers just lower their guns, realizing the futility of it all.
Intro ends.
The rest of the game is the typical military FPS stuff we’re used to, but that intro was pretty great about how war has no winners when it comes to individuals on the battlefield. We all lose in the end, whether we live or not.
I mean duh. It’s art that makes war fun.
Hello. I am a game developer of 10 years. For about 1.5 years I worked on Squad, from early 2016 to late 2017. I quit for this exact reason.
I thought it would be a game about honoring the act of war not glorifying it. Especially since we had veterans at the studio on the design. Instead, it was a game about making it feel as realistic as possible while still being fun. 51% gameplay, 49% realism was the motto.
Squad doesn’t do anything narratively. It just sets two factions on a map and says fight. The mechanics feel great, the sound design is the best it can be, and the vehicles give this strong feeling of weight. It’s a great game… that they then took my work, split into another company into a defense contractor, and made a real-life military simulation. Not like Arma but an actual military training tool.
Squad does the same thing, makes you feel okay with fighting and making fun of an opposing force that is just trying to preserve it’s own way of life. It’s not there narratively but in the community which Squad specifically as a team did nothing at the time to stop the racists and created a pro-war community. In fact, in a lot of ways they cultivated it.
So I have a lot of opinions about this subject, pretty scattered but I will leave you with my greatest accomplishment on Squad https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RMnYm_6rNE
Activision receives preferential access and funding from the DOD. Much like with films and sports presentations, Call of Duty is a PR arm of the military industrial complex.
The upside is I don’t see how its improved recruitment numbers.
At one point in time I certain it has. Right now people seem more skeptical, which is pretty fair since anyone joining now has lived their entire life during a pointless war.
Certainly we already had this conversation like ten years ago right? Call of duty has never been anything but that, you really can’t make a war game that is both fun and anything but pro war
It’s a game.
This sort of response shows that even some people who care a lot about games, think little of them. Like they are all inconsequential playthings.
Can you imagine anyone saying “it’s a book” to try to say that they don’t matter?
Yes
The most stark example against this is the original MW2 - in addition to the anti-war quotes everyone loves to talk about every time you die, the main antagonist is literally a US Army General (admittedly he is distanced from the actual Army by the end, using a PMC instead).
The black ops games have some twist that often provoke the the thought of whether the ends justify the means. ::: In Cold War, the main character, Bell, is actually a captured Russian soldier that they have brainwashed to fight for the US as part of an experimental program. When this is revealed, you have the option to betray your “team” and lead them into a Russian trap :::
That being said, I haven’t played all of the cod campaigns, especially some of the more “historical” entries. It’s more fun to play this type of game when it makes you feel like what you’re doing is justified. It’s important to remember it’s all fiction, but hey, it’s not going to be for everyone. If you feel like the game you’re playing goes against your morals, no shame in switching it off for something else.
As Reggie from Nintendo once said, “If it isn’t fun, why bother.”
As Reggie from Nintendo once said, “If it isn’t fun, why bother.”
I haven’t played enough to make a judgment about COD in particular, but like you said, this is from Nintendo, a company whose main franchise is a game for kids about a funny little man stomping evil turtles in a fantasy world. It doesn’t even have the trappings of something that you can take seriously and use to inform your real life. Nobody would mistake it for anything close to a realistic historical account, unlike COD.
Is Schindler’s List fun?
There is more to media and art than whether its fun. Art can be engaging and intriguing without being “fun”. I wouldn’t call Hellblade: Senua’s Sacrifice “fun” per se, but it’s definitely a good game.
There is more to media and art than whether its fun. Art can be engaging and intriguing without being “fun”. I wouldn’t call Hellblade: Senua’s Sacrifice “fun” per se, but it’s definitely a good game.
I would say Hellblade was indeed not fun and that’s precisely why it’s not a good game.
We definitely disagree on the latter. It was harrowing, but the way it handled its themes was fascinating and the gaming culture would be lesser without it.
We don’t expect all books and movies to be “fun”, why should games all be? We can see other forms of engagement and value in other media.
I’m not sure if we’re talking about the same thing when we say “fun”. When I say fun, I mean entertaining. I find horror games distressing but that’s part of the entertainment. I find grand strategy games confusing for hours but the process of learning is part of the entertainment. I find competitive games often anxiety-inducing but that’s part of the entertainment.
I don’t think all games need to be games of entertainment, though. I often argue as much. However, that argument is intended to include things like the stock market and serious games.
Hellblade is clearly meant to be a game of entertainment. My issue with it is that it puts its message first and puts the player experience second.
I have no problem with games having messages they wish to bring to light. But, at the end of the day, it’s still a game. The message needs to be presented in the context of a gaming experience. I found Hellblade hamfisted. Strip the message away and all you have is a poor action game. I think something that makes gaming such an interesting artistic medium is that you can present your ideas by way of interactions. I think that’s largely what made Spec Ops: The Line so poignant. It was a solid action game first and foremost. You, as a player, were having a blast. Then, the game decides to ask you, by way of a big reveal, why you were having so much fun. I feel that’s a much better approach to delivering a message.
If you define fun by “having a blast” then we are talking about the same thing. Why wouldn’t a game be valid if it’s about delivering a message above moment to moment action? Strip the message away and obviously it’s lesser for it. Because it’s not a message plus an entirely separate mechanical system, it’s about what everything means in context. Rather than focusing on making flashy combos, it’s more interesting to ponder over what is it supposed to represent and what is actually happening.
It’s a little funny though that I did consider Spec Ops as another example, and that I have seen people judging it the same way that you are doing to Hellblade, that it was a mediocre military FPS, but many rebutted that even its lackluster gameplay is supposed to contribute the commentary. In the same way you praise of Spec Ops, I don’t think Hellblade is nearly as bad in that aspect as you say, As an action game it is serviceable, but the action is not the point.
If you argue for serious games but only in the context of the gamification of business and education, you are still glossing over a whole multitude of media that is more about exploring ideas than moment-to-moment thrills, something other media have in plenty, and something which games have incredible potential for. You are thinking of typical games solely in terms of pop culture. There is a lot more to a medium than pop culture and strictly functional tools, and you are making that to be a massive abyss where nothing has worth.
Because it’s not a message plus an entirely separate mechanical system
Except they kinda are separate. It doesn’t matter how good your story is, if it’s a total slog of mediocre boring gameplay to get that story I’m just not gonna bother. If the actual game part of your game is bad, it’s a bad game; if only the story is good, you may as well make it a movie,book or something else like that.
Telltale games were also really bad games for basically the same reasons, should’ve just been direct-to-video/streaming movies. Fight me.
@knokelmaat As someone who used to play call of duty I don’t think anyone plays the campaign and thinks its anything more than fantasy.
Young and impressionable kids? I started playing the original MW2 when I was 11.
You thought it depicted reality?
Even if you know it’s fiction you get the feeling that you are on the “good” side, which may colour your perception on the US military interventions.
True. The teenage mutant ninja turtles colored my perception of giant crime fighting amphibious creatures when I was young…
Why are you giving an example that is not based on a real war or context?
Of course this doesn’t influence your opinion of real life as the subject doesn’t refer to real life (as you so clearly describe with the “giant crime fighting amphibious creatures”).
Because it’s the same thing.
Are you unable to distinguish fiction from reality? Do you also believe GI Joe was real? Does Grand Thieft Auto make you want to steal cars and beat up prostitutes?It’s a video game. You have much much bigger problems to worry about if you’re having trouble disconnecting from it in your mind.
Are you saying that fiction has no influence on how we view the world?
I’m sorry, but that is just wrong. Using fictional works as propaganda is a thing, so it most certainly has an effect on the public.
Other research papers after a quick search, these indicate influence between fiction and beliefs/opinions of the consumers:
You forget that literal children play these games
And also US puts out enough propaganda about their role in wars that enough grown-ass adults have very idealized views about them.
