- cross-posted to:
- linux@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- linux@lemmy.world
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I mean, you literally described 99,999% of distros tbf.
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A better question might be why shouldn’t they? I’m not being pedantic (at least not intentionally) but if their defining characteristic is that they’re nothing special, just a simple Linux distro that does the basic shit easily enough and looks nice - that has major appeal to people unfamiliar with Linux looking to leave other OS’s behind. The vast majority of people that use an OS really have very little idea how it works or why. They just want some basic level of understanding and control over it.
Let’s use Ubuntu for comparison.
- Ubuntu is more up-to-date than its spin-offs.
- Ubuntu will outlive Ubuntu spin-offs, including Zorin.
- Ubuntu offers paid support, whereas Zorin doesn’t.
- Ubuntu community is bigger than Zorin. More resources, tutorials, etc.
Zorin adds only the following value:
- More themes, primarily lookalikes, which is arguably a bad thing.
When people see Windows, they expect Windows. Installers, package managers, peripherals like printers, etc. are different from Windows. Pretending to be Windows makes people feel at ease for a moment at the expense of fundamentally misunderstanding what operating system their computer runs on, and it’ll trip them up eventually, probably sooner rather than later.
See macOS: It looks and feels different. People don’t mistake macOS for Windows. People who use Windows don’t expect macOS to behave like Windows, and vice-versa. But hey, let’s make macOS look and feel like Windows at first glance. Why can’t I run that .exe? What do you mean, I must use an app store? What is HDCP, and why does it prevent me from connecting this laptop to the projector?
For iOS that’d be questions like: Where is the Play Store? Why can’t I install that (Android-only) app? I think you get my point.
This is one of the reasons why branding exists. Yet many Linux distros would like to believe they can replicate the Windows experience through a miracle, and fool themselves into thinking that’s a good thing for Linux newcomers. It’s especially bad for people who don’t know they use Linux, like when they use computers at the office, library, etc. with a distro like Zorin.
I mean, most DEs copy Windows (KDE does, Cinnamon does, etc).
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Taskbar along the bottom that shows opened programs
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Start button that opens a small start menu in the bottom left
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Clock in the bottom right
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System tray in the bottom right
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Frequently have menu bars at the top of apps
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Minimise, maximise, close at the top right of each app
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etc
So tbh it seems harsh to criticise Zorin for copying Windows when it seems, with the exception of Gnome, that all actual up to date DEs have copied Windows. And if they went with vanilla Gnome they’d not really be offering anything different at all.
Definitely count these other DEs into my criticism. They’re part of the problem.
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Tbh I used it few months ago and it’s a pretty decent noob distro but I had some annoying graphical issues caused by snaps, which zorin use(d?) even by default so I can’t recommend it because of that. It also doesn’t allow much customization but that’s GNOME for you.
spoiler
Also, this is just a me thing and not the distro’s fault, but I couldn’t stand having Zs everywhere even if it is a pure coincidence and I actually know the volunteers stand with Ukraine.
It’s a good distro for those who want an easy introduction to Linux, I just think Linux Mint or Pop_OS are better, but there’s many who use it and swear by it.
I use it. It’s great. I’ve tried Linux many times over the past decade but it never stuck until Zorin. If you’re coming from Windows it’s a very friendly (and polished) way of being welcomed to Linux while also showing off Linux’s strengths, things that are often hidden to the user unless they want to explore the terminal.
For Mac users who are Linux-curious I would recommend Ubuntu because it’s much similar, whereas Zorin seems clearly designed with people who liked Windows 10 but not Windows 11.
If you want something like Mac, use elementary os.
I disagree: elementary is quite limited with really basic desktop features out of the box, limited personalization, weird interface decisions with some ugly panels, and pretty behind on updates, relying heavily on their own walled gard-
You know what? You’re right.
😂
Kinda. I’m using Elementary OS right now, and I think of it more like a Chromebook… with more options to expand it.
Zorin was, at least a few years ago, tailored to be easy to adapt to for people switching from Windows. This new version looks beautiful, I’m going to take it for a spin!
Tbh I see it as “prettier linux mint”. Good distro for beginners but nothing more
exactly!
oh yeah. its an out of the box for folks (like myself) who like that. Lots of apps preinstalled including play on linux. So I can install and start using without adding any additional software. Its not the only oob distro but combining that with the look feel emulation is great and I have never seen an oob that sets up wine so well to use immediately. So its a bit like a combo of a gaming distro with oob and then the lookNfeel thing.
No, but I used this back when I was a little penguin and I had to “see” something working on Linux.
Xrdp server enabled with a toggle instead of messing with the terminal for 1 hour seems unique
That’s not exclusive to Zorin however, that’s just a Gnome 42 feature (unless the base gnome implementation is the one you’re referring to that needs configuring in the terminal).
Ah. The way they wrote that seemed an exclusive…
Nice for gnome, so, when I wanted to set xrdp on debian a couple years ago I cried and almost gave up.
yes and I love it
I’ve got it on my fiancées laptop. She doesn’t use it very often though. It’s a decent enough experience
It seems ok, guess I should try the free version before making judgements, realized the pro is ONLY $50 and completely optional. Sorry
at minimum Seems they charge a shitton for “bonus” software like they’re a wannabe windows or some fuckin shit. Avoid this if you have any respect for yourself or open source softwareIf you had respect for open source software, you’d be willing to pay for it
$2,000 for autocad? Misunderstood what the site was saying
Doesn’t sound like the kind of thing a linux distro should be selling. When was the last time Debian tried to get you to spend thousands of dollars on it??They are just showing you that you don’t need to spend $2000 on Autocad and other listed software, because Zorin has all these open source tools bundled in it.
Though tbh replacing Autocad or office365 with FOSS alternatives are bold claims because these alternatives just aren’t viable in a commercial environment.
Guess i misunderstood?
Personally, I would say Richard Stallman has respect for open source software: https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/selling.html.
Having respect for free (as in “libre”) software means caring if the software can sustain its own development, and not just caring if you get it free (as in “gratis”). It’s not always viable to support a project on donations and free time the way GNU is. https://xkcd.com/2347/
Linux people don’t pay, they donate.
This does feel like a donation. I’m gonna try at some point
The pro version is just official support service from the company. That’s how FOSS has always been monetized, no?
Seems like a good deal for people completely unfamiliar with Linux who just want a cheap OS and help to keep it running.
It doesn’t go into much detail but it says pro includes blender and planify? Does any of that $50 go back to the apps, I wonder?
well I don’t use Foss I use Proton 😜
I’m an idiot
I’m sorry
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It’s just support, for people that can afford it or want it. The bonus software is all free or foss, the rest are wallpapers or other gnome themes that can be get otherwise
I use the free version. its fine. if you have to have it look like a mac then yeah you can pay or configure it yourself like you would with any linux.
So let me get this straight, they have a windows look by default, but using GNOME for whatever reason, then they give you the option to switch to something more vanilla GNOME but disable all of the gestures and workspaces, and then they advertise it like they invented gestures when they decide to stop disabling all of them
whats bad with gnome
Nothing, I use gnome, but if you want a windows look by default then plasma is made for that
Is it me or does most of this look like Gnome? 🤔
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Well I guess that explains it 😅
So basically Ubuntu-based GNOME-skin OS, advertising GNOME’s new features as their own?
Yeah, I don’t get it either. Like 95% of the stuff they promote is already out there in Fedora for a long time. It isn’t anything special to Zorin.
Not much of a progress this time.
Still waiting for zorin grid.
This looks beautiful, congrats to Zorin contributors!
We need fewer distros and more focus on things that matter.
you are free to not make distros
You’re right. I will start a new distro that focuses on the the things that matter.
Man, I laughed so hard at this one
Damn, those silly volunteers are doing the wrong things in their free time!
I think a unified package manager/app store model that is vetted by all contributing distros would go a long way. SteamOS/Steam deck is bringing gamers to linux and that’s great. But it would be easier to bring on a lot more desktop users if there was an app store that every distro could visit. Flatpak is close, snaps however I think are too polarizing.
You’re 100% right that this is a danger of attempting to consolidate
I use fedora silverblue. I’d like to switch to suse microos but the difference is so small that it’s probably not worth it to switch. (Just a guesstimate, silverblue has some goodies afterall with the whole image centric os)
Probably, it’s almost the same for vanillaos. Because everything is within distrobox and flatpak, I do not work with the native package manager anymore (almost, there are exceptions because of the DE).
If I would switch to microos, I, as an enduser, wouldn’t notice too much a real difference.
People should stop making new distros for what should be a post install script. But, things are fucking complicated and that’s why we need the forks and new distros.
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Thx for the elaboration. That’s what I roughly meant with “image centric os”.
Opensuse aeon encourages you to use flatpak. The first thing it does right after installation is to install apps from flathub, including firefox (unlike silverblue).
An example from the doc
For this reason, All Applications, Browsers, Codecs needed for specific apps, etc are provided by FlatPaks from FlatHub.
Especially the following
To reiterate: EVERYTHING should be done via Flatpaks or be installed in a Distrobox if a package is not available as a flatpak. Using transactional-update is strictly what you need for your host operating system to work (exotic drivers, specialized vpn services).
Usually, you do not rollback, you do not go back to an older system. On both systems, you use distrobox and flatpak. I don’t see much of a difference as an end user.
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Fedora has images which you can create yourself as an enduser which means a corporation with thousands of computers can create their own image. They don’t have to create a new distro. That’s not possible with suse but I don’t know if that’s so important since I do not administer such things. I as an enduser do not care about the underlying system, I don’t tinker with it, I rarely touch it. That’s the case for both distros. I may install a vpn or so.
If you want to tinker with your system, neither fedora nor suse are good for that, using arch is the way to go.
Why is fedora better for advanced users?
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despite my xkdc smartassedness I would love to see something that made an easy to do thing like this for linux https://portableapps.com/ there are some close things but not quite so easy.
I disagree. Each distro is a user of a thousand different open source systems. When a distro developer integrates gnome, systemd, bluez, or whatever other system they’re finding, reporting, and possibly fixing bugs that end users might miss. Other than arch users, who else is compiling these things from scratch and really digging into the documentation?
Us weird debian testing users.
Gentoo users? Void users?
They’d still be doing that.
That kinda is his point. A distro maintainer patching and distributing a thousand packages is duplicitous. Especially when the only real difference to the user is the DE. Putting those efforts upstream is a better use of resources. I develop software, and I’m not going to test a million different distros especially when the difference between Ubuntu and Zorin is a DE and some additional packages. It makes Linux users very mad, but the reality is that they are too fractured to support every distro they use equally.
The primary thing that makes FOSS popular is that you can fork it. You’re saying that people need to not do the main thing it’s designed to be able to do!
All the shit I hate about windows packed into a Linux environment… I guess maybe it will help Windows users switch over?
such as?
From the screenshot, an ugly as fuck theme and a useless start menu.
I suppose it the menu would probably actually be functional in Linux and not just a way for them to spam Bing.
The moment Linux users go from “install Linux to get off Microsoft products” to “WAHHHHH WHY DONT YOU LIKE MY LAYOUT BETTER :((((((” you lose all credibility.
Maybe. And hear me out here. Maybe your desktop layout and theme is a fucking OPINION and no one else has to agree that it’s the “best” layout??? Fucking crazy, I know.
If it makes them more comfortable, all the power to them. But there are far better window managers and desktops environments out there both in terms of look and functionality.
It’s still a huge upgrade from actually using Windows 11, and maybe once they dip their toes in they’ll ditch this eyesore of a layout next.
Not necessarily, it depends on the demographic of the user. I highly doubt that my grandparents would decide to switch this “eyesore of a layout”.
I agree that some will switch, but definitely not everyone.
Some people are way too complacent with things being handed to them, rather than seeking out better alternatives that match what they really want. Though I suppose some people actuallyike that design.
What works for you won’t work for someone else. The Windows design works just fine for some and that’s okay. Not everyone is trying to be a super power user
mfw when entire distros are advertising UI features of gnome that came standard on every DE like 15+ years ago, including gnome.
Seriously, Compiz is from 2006.
Also I find their Zorin OS Pro offer a bit scummy. Now the themes do look nice, but few would spend 50$ for a few themes. So they advertise having 5000$ worth of professional creative alternatives bundled. In screenshots you’ll then see Kdenlive, Blender and Inkscape. I don’t know what to think about the fact they want 50$ for bundling a few themes and free software. If they had just kept the stupid 5000$ part out I would have been fine with it, professional support can be great for people switching over from windows, but this seems a bit scummy to me.
Distributions nowadays are defined by their desktop bling :(
It used to be that you could just install whatever desktop you fancied on pretty much any distro.
I mean you still can
Can you install MacOS by Zorin™ on something else? I suppose there’s a source repository somewhere and you can always compile it if you really want it…
There’s a gnome extension (ArcMenu) that’s inspired by Zorin that’s simply a better and more customizable version of all of zorin’s desktop themes (and more). You can get it on any Linux
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More people should start charging for their work and actually staffing security. I like zorin just for the fact that I have expectations for items I pay for where things that are free I can’t really hold accountable.
I know that’s antiFOSS but I’m somewhere in the middle lately. I want to pay for quality but still be able to tinker with it.
A lot of free and open source products are in fact funded through grants or corpates
What do you mean? Payment isn’t anti-FOSS at all, it’s just a lot harder to make money when the source is libre.
I’m glad you think so. I remember Richard stallman banging on a bongo singing that charging for software is greed.
I just want people to have enough incentives for their time that things are safe and the workers paid properly. I wish more open source devs got paid.
That’s not exactly anti-FOSS, to my understanding, since the “free” part refers to freedom. As long as after you pay you are free to use the software as you want and get access to the source code, I think it might still count as FOSS? And then, of course, there’s the option of paid support on free (of charge) software, though I think recent events might suggest that’s not really sustainable.
