I feel like we need to talk about Lemmy’s massive tankie censorship problem. A lot of popular lemmy communities are hosted on lemmy.ml. It’s been well known for a while that the admins/mods of that instance have, let’s say, rather extremist and onesided political views. In short, they’re what’s colloquially referred to as tankies. This wouldn’t be much of an issue if they didn’t regularly abuse their admin/mod status to censor and silence people who dissent with their political beliefs and for example, post things critical of China, Russia, the USSR, socialism, …

As an example, there was a thread today about the anniversary of the Tiananmen Massacre. When I was reading it, there were mostly posts critical of China in the thread and some whataboutist/denialist replies critical of the USA and the west. In terms of votes, the posts critical of China were definitely getting the most support.

I posted a comment in this thread linking to “https://archive.ph/2020.07.12-074312/https://imgur.com/a/AIIbbPs” (WARNING: graphical content), which describes aspects of the atrocities that aren’t widely known even in the West, and supporting evidence. My comment was promptly removed for violating the “Be nice and civil” rule. When I looked back at the thread, I noticed that all posts critical of China had been removed while the whataboutist and denialist comments were left in place.

This is what the modlog of the instance looks like:

Definitely a trend there wouldn’t you say?

When I called them out on their one sided censorship, with a screenshot of the modlog above, I promptly received a community ban on all communities on lemmy.ml that I had ever participated in.

Proof:

So many of you will now probably think something like: “So what, it’s the fediverse, you can use another instance.”

The problem with this reasoning is that many of the popular communities are actually on lemmy.ml, and they’re not so easy to replace. I mean, in terms of content and engagement lemmy is already a pretty small place as it is. So it’s rather pointless sitting for example in /c/linux@some.random.other.instance.world where there’s nobody to discuss anything with.

I’m not sure if there’s a solution here, but I’d like to urge people to avoid lemmy.ml hosted communities in favor of communities on more reasonable instances.

  • balderdash@lemmy.zip
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    0
    ·
    6 days ago

    Shit like this makes people go back to reddit. At least there’s more content and getting banned from one million user subreddit doesn’t stop you from going to another big sub. Here, if you get banned in one or two of the big instances you have to become a lurker. I take pride in being able to disagree with the dominant opinion in a reasonable way, but these .ml mods are unreasonable.

  • EunieIsTheBus@feddit.de
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    0
    ·
    7 months ago

    The problem with this reasoning is that many of the popular communities are actually on lemmy.ml, and they’re not so easy to replace. I mean, in terms of content and engagement lemmy is already a pretty small place as it is.

    I think this is a core problem of lemmy as it is right now. This place is meant to be federated and decentralized. Instead it is heavily centralized as communities lie on one instance. What one needs should be federated communities as well. Like say c/linux@lemmy.world is the same as c/linux@someotherinstance.com. this way one could subscribe to communities on your home instance and if the home instance defederates from one other instance the community can defederate from the community on that instance without completely breaking apart

  • elliot_crane@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    0
    ·
    7 months ago

    As you say OP, the solution here is to use the fediverse model as intended and use different instances/communities. It sucks because it fragments the community, but that’s the way it is. I’ve long held the opinion that I’m grateful to the lemmy developers for building this whole thing that we all get to enjoy, but their approach to administering an instance is reprehensible and actively damaging to the relatively free and open exchange of ideas that should happen on the fediverse.

  • Lucidlethargy@sh.itjust.works
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    0
    ·
    7 months ago

    I think all instances need to defederate. This is totally inexcusable. We shouldn’t be attached and well connected to a CCP-controlled (influenced or directly) community. This is propaganda, pure and simple.

    It’s not a problem to have dissenting opinions to widely held beliefs, but it is a problem to have those injected constantly into our streams while all opposition is silently erased and curated to artifically support state-sponsored CCP propaganda.

  • TheFonz@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    0
    ·
    7 months ago

    I don’t mind being banned from the ml instance. The issue is their users come to all the other instances and use the same old strategies to stifle any speech by engaging extremely hyperbolic language and name-calling. The goal is to have a chilling effect on any discourse where their opinions are scrutinized in the slightest.

    They can’t engage with any topics or offer counter arguments. Every response is:

    “I don’t know how to respond to your argument. You must be a _____________[insert ‘racist’ or ‘genocide defending’ or ‘fascist’ or my new favorite ‘zionist’]”

  • the post of tom joad@sh.itjust.works
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    0
    ·
    7 months ago

    Tankies make liberals uncomfortable because liberals believe they are the furthest left you can go before you become wrong and bad (forgetting that there are folks to their right on the political spectrum who think they are.

    The worst thing for a tankie like me was running here to get away from the insane msn-pilled discourse and doing some actual leftists and have you ducking pumps chase me down screaming the whole time how i am following them. I mean shit I’m just trying to talk leftist ideals that haven’t been twisted into neoliberal business-school-bullshit talking points. I care bout the same shit yall do, i just don’t think the DNC is going to help us get there.

    Libs? If you are burning with desire to debate politics? I am begging… begging you to understand that the politics you learned in school and yesterday on the tv aren’t acumen (why would they be?), and to embrace the idea/possibility that there’s an iota of a chance you might not actually be right.

    Does this notion mean i am? No. But if you don’t think you might be wrong then you’ll likely never find out you are.

  • mightyfoolish@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    0
    ·
    edit-2
    7 months ago

    There’s no need to defederate from Lemmy.ml. I rarely see their content on the front page of Lemmy.world. The other day someone complained that Lemmy.ml users were brigading a different thread. I counted three users with a ml domain…

    We have different admins and mods, everything is working as intended. The issue is people bringing up tankies, communists, and China every three posts. Yes, we get it, the benevolent people who wrote us this software are communists. They allow us to have different mods and admins, there is no problem here.

    Honestly, I wouldn’t post to /c/worldnews@lemmy.ml even though I’m happy with how pro-Palestine those people are. The only community I look at Lemmy.ml is /c/linux@lemmy.ml. It’s not their fault no one posts to the Lemmy.world instance.

    I think it’s time to start banning users who troll other instances and cross pollinate the fediverse with drama.

  • Nom Nom@lemm.ee
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    0
    ·
    7 months ago

    The problem with this reasoning is that many of the popular communities are actually on lemmy.ml, and they’re not so easy to replace.

    Very true, I saw a post about censorship posted on !mildlyinfuriating@lemmy.world that happened in !comics@lemmy.ml (instead of another instance with the same subject community) possibly because of this reason OP mentioned. This complaint post was also deleted from the community because it was violating the rules which I suppose it was since this was the reason:

    alt text

    The title of the post in the picture above was the reason given by the comics mod:

    alt text

    My unpopular opinion however is that simply de-federating won’t help as it just promotes those instances into becoming louder echo chambers. I think the simpler solution would be to have a dedicated community for mod abuse (I’m aware of !modabuse@lemmy.world but .world blocked /c/piracy so…) , so users can be aware of said issues and create or migrate to different communities as we see fit. Besides, users can simply block entire instances for themselves. Please don’t comment on the paradox of tolerance as I just mentioned blocking for oneself already.

    P.S.

    Devs please make it easier to browse the modlog, having to press the next button is bafflingly tedious. I had to resort to editing the url to browse faster, add a jump to by time/date or something.

  • GingaNinga@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    0
    ·
    7 months ago

    I’ve had this happen to me, I was chatting in a thread with some guy about IP theft and plagiarism at universities- a legitimate discussion about a current topic- and all my comments were suddenly deleted for “xenophobia”. I let it go but its still really jarring and annoying.

  • RememberTheApollo_@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    0
    ·
    7 months ago

    I’ve commented there on a /news community with sourced points to make my argument and was basically told to shut the F up and had my comments deleted.

    So I blocked the community.

    I’m not sure how to deal with extremist mods any other way. Their instance, their community, and other than defederating and putting a lot of effort into restarting and growing any valuable communities on another instance while keeping the undesirable .ml gang out, I’m not sure there is any other solution.

  • taipan@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    0
    ·
    7 months ago

    .ml = Marxism-Leninism

    This wasn’t obvious to me because ML could also mean the country of Mali or machine learning, but based on their content and moderation patterns, it’s unmistakable that the “.ml” in Lemmy instances like lemmy.ml and lemmygrad.ml stands for Marxism-Leninism.

    Hope that clears things up.

  • Socsa@sh.itjust.works
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    0
    ·
    7 months ago

    People who are naive if they think the .ml admins and devs don’t intend to keep their thumb on the Lemmy scale. More instances need to take this threat seriously and defederate from .ml, and possibly even fork the Lemmy repos for when the devs inevitably decide they want to start building quiet exploits into the code. There are serious cyber security implications here that people are sleeping on

  • Yummers@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    0
    ·
    7 months ago

    I find that as fediverse spaces become more popular, they move away from their original culture and get turned into liberal cultures with small pockets of anarchism. I think it will happen here too if Lemmy continues getting new users. Tankies will lose influence primarily by being defederated because they cannot play nice with others.

  • Linkerbaan@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    0
    ·
    7 months ago

    Lemmy.world heavily censors criticism of israel over at /politics and /news

    .ml is far less tankie than .world.