idk it’s my first time (kind of) trying to do dataviz, I thought the original post was super interesting but like other comments said, it was hard to read.
I think in a way it’s mostly because defederation is complex to show as links, since it is the break of said link, but hopefully this type of graph is better ?
you do lose the “group” of instances view, though (and also I did not bother with per instance MAU as raw number + percentage, or sofware used)
let me know what you think!
When I saw it I thought of this quote: “Why Is It When Something Happens, It’s Always You three?” Tbh I didn’t know about 2 of 3 Top 3 defederated instances, I know why feddit is defederated, but why is lemmygrad?
lemmygrad is pro authoritarian
Oh… I understand now why it’s banned, thanks!
Modern liberal democracy is authoritarian too, it’s just that a different group of people hold the keys. Would you support defederating with every instance that is aligned with liberal democracy?
Modern liberal democracy is authoritarian too, it’s just that a different group of people hold the keys
I can see that some Western countries lean towards authoritarian, but for example Switzerland? How is this country authoritarian?
Would you support defederating with every instance that is aligned with liberal democracy?
Tbh, I can understand the reasons why some instances want to defederate from others. if I look in scenario that I’m the administrator of my own instance I don’t know if I would defederate from any instance, like I don’t think I’m knowledgeable enough about every instance and about their own quirks
but for example Switzerland? How is this country authoritarian?
Every state is going to be authoritarian, if I had to choose I personally prefer a workers dictatorship to a dictatorship of capital.
Every state is going to be authoritarian
Ummm… Any source other than: “trust me”?
you’re asking for a ‘source’ on a foundational axiom of political theory. do you want a source for ‘all governments have laws’ too?
a state is defined by its monopoly on violence, enforcing that is inherently authoritarian.
switzerland has police, prisons, borders and is structured around protection of capital and property rights.
‘democracy’ under capitalism reflects the interests and prejudices of those with property. it is plenty authoritarian if you are not in that class.
Cool diagram.
If you removed hexbear and lemmygrad (nearly everyone defederates them so they just clutter the place up) then the other information would be clearer. For example I didn’t notice that beehaw has defederated both lemmy.world and sh.itjust.works until my third viewing.
One point of order, you lost slrpnk.net’s defederation of hexbear.net
This makes much more sense thanks
It would be cool to have something like the internet map but of the fediverse
There is https://lemmy.fediverse.observer/map but I don’t know how accurate it is
edit: it looks completely off at first glance lol
I know lots of folks look at this and see a shattering of the what they expect. The Fediverse is NOT a platform. Lemmy.world is NOT the Threadiverse. Let’s break these bonds. I left a server because I was suspected of being a CIA plant. I went to one that was more welcoming. I found they were too strict for me on their rules. I left that. I’m not on piefed.social. I’m planning on running my own piefed for ME and MY family/friends hopefully SOON^TM. If someone defederates from me, that’s ok, they didn’t want me to be a part of their community. MY community still exists.
These aren’t platforms that are out there trying to save the entire world. They’re building a community that interconnects to other communities. Don’t like how they’re doing it, you can literally spin up your own for dollars per month.
Yes, if you want your stuff to be found you have to advocate for it.
I think the Trek communities are stand outs of how this works and how it should be done. Think of like old Forum days. Normally folks would create a forum for a specific topic and other thigns would go other places. But now those forums connect and you can run your own and connect to everyone.
Break this idea that this major pillars disconnecting are fracturing the fediverse. IMO the more small instances we have the stronger the network.
So build a Piefed/Lemmy/Mastodon/GoToSocial/Bonfire whatever for your community and then allow those to connect out to others.
The idea of this change is scary though. And maybe I’m wrong. Maybe we can’t exist the way I hope we do. But I think humans strive for community and communication and we have a new way to provide it to them.
Don’t like how they’re doing it, you can literally spin up your own for dollars per month.
Not so easy.
Mostly a liability issue.
First there’s security - make sure the server doesn’t get compromised.
Then you need to figure out how to deal with illegal content like CSAM (was already a widespread issue on Lemmy at least once, causing multiple instances to shutdown) - even on private instance due to content caching.
And legal issues such as minimum age and privacy regulations that you’d have to comply with.3rd one is not an issue if you only use it yourself, and perhaps with a couple of friends that won’t try to sue you when they get mad.
There are 500 Lemmy instances and 80 PieFed instances which are too small to show on the graph :)
Well said, agent Johnson.
God bless the U.S. of A
Besides, and related to “not being a platform”, it helps break the idea of everyone having to share the same space with everyone. If two groups can’t have a healthy relationship, it is healthier for them to cut ties with each other. Meanwhile, the oligarchic platforms being as big and with barely any internal borders makes for the toxic environment of places like Reddit and Twitter that predates recent polemics.
There is an older strain of thought that imagines the fediverse as hyperlocal, which I generally subscribe to. Unfortunately, the community model seems to draw more people onto default instances, unlike the hashtag model which makes it easier for people to fan out onto smaller instances.
I always thought that people are drawn into the default instances because they have less friction to sign up and login in third-party apps. Along with new people not quite grasping how the fediverse works when they start using it.
Yes. This. Big Tech has taught folks that there’s only ONE place to sign up. We have to help folks realize, and undo the damage, of centralization. And that’s going to be a very personal and community minded idea. We shouldn’t be going up to everyone and yelling “SIGN UP TO MASTODON!” Because we’ll get “how?” And the answer will be mastodon.social. Instead we need to find groups, let’s say your local gaming group and say “hey I set up this thing that allows us to talk about our local gaming group and OH YEAH it connects to all this other cool shit btw.”
Agreed. Its federated. Let instances do thier thing. It gives us more options not less.
A bit scarier than the previous one at first glance, but the single line explanation including everything needed to understand makes it easier to read.
Something though, I think it’d be better to have a cut-off of MAU or some other relevance metric, as otherwise smaller instances defederating from major ones may sneakily make the major one seem more isolated than it really is.
Or scale arrow size by MAU, I don’t know.
That sounds like a great idea, that’s some of the most important information.
I’m on sh.ijust.works because it has a bad word in it. I don’t know what you’re all complaining about
I think it’s prettier but harder to glean information from.
Hexbear uses a whitelist so they are not federated with a bunch of these instances besides .world
The Hexbear Great Firewall exists to keep the Beanis contained
In addition to comments others have made about some of the colors being difficult to see/differentiate, I think it would be worthwhile to distinguish one-way defederation from mutual defederation, perhaps with a texture?
It would make the graphic busier, but I also would enjoy seeing population percentages next to each instance name (to give weight to the significance of certain defederations, e.g. how much of the fediverse are you excluding by defederating with hexbear vs lemmy.world).
So why does everyone hate lemmygrad and hexbear? I’m out of the loop on that.
they are too extreme for the normal extremists.
tankie bullshit
tankies.
Hexbear originated from ChapoTrapHouse fandom which is a part of the so-called dirtbag left that explicitly antagonizes (neo)liberals. They also don’t use downvotes and encourage users to voice their opinions instead.
So every wave of redditor freaks the hell out when they get a handful of hexbear users clowning on some take like it’s a coordinated brigade attack.
I have mixed feelings about that. Thanks for explaining!
lemmygrad because they are perceived as tankies / commies, and thus get all the kneerjerk reaction from the people who are unwilling to apply the same standards to the US, the EU or Israel.
Hexbear, honestly no idea.
Tankies act a heck of a lot like Alt-Right MAGA, both outright calling for genocide so long as it is done against their enemies rather than allies. In short, tankies claim to be leftist, but aren’t.
That said, Hexbear isn’t even that much really, so much as pure trolling for its own sake. Both are examples of what happens when echo chambers are allowed to exist for a long time - the people inside become radicalized and immune to factual information from the outside that may run counter to their allowed list of interpretations of matters.
I find it mildly interesting that there’s no inverse of lemmygrad, that defederates from everybody else
beehaw?
Some instances use allowlist meaning other servers are defederated unless added to the list. Hexbear is the only major instance that uses this model, to my knowledge.
Defederation is often seen as a last resort and generally seen pretty negatively. Defederating everyone would also get rid of most content
Yeah but this graph would have so much more data >:)
It doesn’t even Include https://lemmy.today/ that has no defederation or blocking at all, and has never had, since the admin feels it’s up to the user and not the admin to decide these things. You know, free and open internet, remember?
Also one of the best themes of all Lemmy instances if you ask me.
You gotta ask the OOP about that, but my guess is, in a graph that shows instances that defederate, why include an instance that doesn’t?
I see your point I guess. Perhaps defederation is something that users want, and then they are happy to see who does it the most?
Im not like that myself, but I can see the point.
why include an instance that doesn’t?
Because it lets you see how common or uncommon defederations are relative to the total set of all instances (or at least, all minus the long tail of very-low-user-count ones). And although it would make the graph larger, it would also make it sparse and IMO that would also be easier to read.
It could also give a misleading impression that all instances defederate or are defederated by somebody, making people think it’s more common than it actually is. (Or maybe not doing that, if you include allish instances and it still ends up being not very sparse.)
Came here to say that!
I can’t comprehend why people would join instances in the list. If you don’t like a particular instance, just hop into the user settings and block it! Why let others set your blocklist?
because it’s less work.
Besides ideology, preferences, bot filtering, or content, there’s also the matter of blocking things like CSAM, gore, etc. Lemmy proposes to not only factor in user preferences but also to properly curate the content via its moderators.
The first and most obvious is that (last I checked on Lemmy) per-user instance blocks only block posts, not comments. This means that for truly spammy instances (cough Hexbear cough) it requires an instance-wide block to achieve.
Secondly, I would argue it is the same as any other reason to choose an instance. That being, I have to generally like the vibe and agree with the way it’s run. For example, I have to agree with the instance rules and trust the admins to moderate them. This is an extension of that.
In the case of lemmy.ca specifically, I would say every major defederation I know of has been cast to a community vote and has had solid reasoning behind it. It comes back to trust and matching opinions: I (currently) trust the admin team to have reasonable defederations as they have matched or been similar to my opinions in the past.
I enjoy not having to self-moderate my experience outside of individual users or rare cases. Choosing an instance that generally aligns with your views allows your admin team to do some moderation for you.
Might be frontend-dependent, but it’s certainly an issue if comments are not filtered the same way.
Otherwise, alright, I see your point!
Now I am curious what is going on in fedinsfw.
Reposting porn from other sites i assune
porn that makes most folks uncomfortable
Legal risk. Being federated means mirroring the content locally and that can cause liability for the instance owner. Laws around porn can vary by country and to some being federated could be illegal, or be an unreasonable risk.
