“Wait a second…is that from the ‘83 tour?!”
I mean yes but also don’t be anti-intellectual if people have time they are plenty of books we should recommend.
This is audible
The US military is always asking for recruits. If you don’t read, you won’t know that “helping them” means killing civilians.
Putting on my D.A.R.E. T-shirt and clutching my state issued copy of the Ten Commandments and snapping an Amazon Ring Camera on my front door, so I help the state identify any of those nasty, America hating Antifa I’ve been hearing so much about.
I’m helping!
Anarchists usually don’t need the kind of deprogramming of capitalist, monarchist, colonial, or imperial systems that socialist and Marxist theories typically focus on.
Is that why every anarchist I know tells me I’m insane and justifying the “evil Iranian regime” after I said the US/Israel shouldn’t be bombing Iran?
Bruh what
Yeah no I’m gonna step in and fully agree with you on the statement of “psychopaths shouldn’t be allowed to enact destruction on civilians.”
IDF, USA (and all its three letter agencies), whatever authoritarian fuckbags murdered Iranian protestors, etc.
It’s all bad. If these genocidal people who choose to reject their humanity have an axe to grind, they should be forced to do so amongst themselves.
Hiding behind bombs and armies is bullshit. Make the “leaders” go face to face, with little more than a rusty machete and keep the rest of the world’s people out of it.
[citation needed]
I’m an anarchist.
Iran is an authoritarian shithole. The US is an authoritarian shithole and bombing Iran’s civilian population is a fucking war crime.
Fuck both the US and Iran. And Israel. And Hamas.When all the information you have about Iran comes straight from western sources that have lied about Palestinians for years you should take all claims about Iran (and Hamas) with a pile of salt. Otherwise you’re a useful idiot both sidings issues that have to do with imperialism first and foremost.
I have multiple Iranian friends. No one in Iran other than religious fundamentalists liked Khamenei, or his government. But they also (justifiably) don’t trust the west. They feel trapped. Khamenei being removed is a problem not because he’s gone, but because he leaves a vacuum that might get filled with something worse.
Many people in Iran don’t like their government, many do, there’s a sample bias in that those who are more interested in western culture and more likely to learn English and talk to us are also more likely to be very secular (and sometimes, more propagandized by the west as well).
The main contradiction in the region right now is imperialism, after imperialism is weakened and the vassal states fall the people of Iran will be able to decide if they want a different government without US interference. As it stands now it’s impossible for them to change their government and not be a neoliberal puppet run by compradors. Believe me I also want every Iranian to have as much freedom as they desire.
@ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works, maybe anarchists of the imperial core really do could use some colonialist/imperialist deprogramming.
I hear you, though I am more inclined to take a Gramscian view that cultural hegemony of capitalist/imperial core entities convert those anarchists to libertarians, or some form of compromised anarcho-syndicalism or libertarian socialism. So I wouldn’t call them anarchists.
But it’s not a True Scotsman thing for me, so I don’t fundamentally disagree with that perspective.
Agreed. And I think most of the anarchist-leaning folks I know would also agree.
Uttering “fuck Hamas” in 2026 is the definitive evidence that you need to read theory. You’re spreading Zionist propaganda.
“Fuck Apartheid South Africa and the ANC”
Your position is just support for the oppressor.
Careful now, they don’t take kindly to anarchists who don’t obey the ghost of Stalin.
Their deprogramming is just reprogramming to ignore war friends painted in Red and Gold, instead of Red White and Blue.
Anarchists just work and don’t need to spend hours yelling at others to read theory. They just do things. This infuriates the MLs.
Weirdly, none of the 80 books on the reading list will actually be by Marx himself
Why is that weird? Marx wrote in the 1800s, quite a few things have happened since then.
Because he’s the M in ML
You argue like Charlie Kirk. You think you have a clever gotcha and you can probably convince children with this, but there’s no meaning. People don’t read Newton when they study Newtonian mechanics either. Unless they’re particularly interested; of course they can get something out of it, but you’d never start there. It’s not weird to name a field after the person whose ideas kicked it off.
Christian teachings weren’t written by Christ, people wrote about Darwinism that aren’t Darwin, a person can be the namesake and originator of a philosophy but other scholars will continue writing based on their viewpoint.
I mean, Christian teachings are largely Greek Philosophy grafted onto Abrahamic religion. I’m not terribly convinced early church fathers really cared what Jesus thought.
Marx was a social scientist, not a prophet. Marxism is a science, not a dogma. Marx’s work should be studied, I feature his works in my basic Marxist-Leninist study guide, but that does not mean that Marx’s words are holy. Marxist concepts have been extended and explained in ways more applicable to contemporary times, retaining Marxism as the foundation and applying it to present, ever-changing conditions. It’s this flexibility and evolution of Marxism that turns it into a science, rather than a dogma.
That’s more or less what every Marxist and Marxist-Leninist really needs to hear.
Sure, I agree, thats’s why Mao wrote Oppose Book Worship. Marxism is a guide to action, and a science that evolves.
Wait til you find out how many books in the Bible were actually written by supernatural beings 😅
That would be Zero but Christians sure are convinced it’s all of them.
Are there no anarchist books? I’m pretty sure there are and anarchy doesn’t mean willful ignorance.
Being on the receiving end of crowd control munitions is certainly a better education then any book.
If you’re curious about theory there’s tons of alternatives to books: podcasts, film, public speeches, community training/workshops, etc.
My suggestion is Women’s War by Robert Evans on Behind the Bastards. I also suggest pretty much anything on https://channelzeronetwork.com/
If someone just shows up and participates with an open mind they’re doing more than most. Anyone who would gatekeep because you didn’t read such and such text should be promptly told to fuck right off because that’s a caustic hierarchical bullshit appeal to false authority and kills engagement.
If you need a (text)book try The Ecology of Freedom - Bookchin. You could probably find other books here too https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/murray-bookchin-the-ecology-of-freedom
If you’re curious about theory there’s tons of alternatives to books: podcasts, film
Lol
Robert Evans
LOL
I’ve really grown to like Behind the Bastards and Evans seems pretty based. Why lol?
It’s technically a work of fiction but The Dispossessed by Ursula Le Guin can maybe be considered an anarchist book. It does a deep delve into an anarchist society and how it could theoretically be organized. In my opinion it could also be interpreted as a critique, but I think it’s stronger for it.
On one hand it is incredibly funny that after such question only two books and one movie got mentioned by title in thread and two of which are a work of fiction, but then again, LeGuin is still better than Proudhon lol.
On the other hand, this anarchist society in Disposessed is a pretty good analogy in how it is essentially entirely on the mercy of the people on the Urras. Even the anarchist utopia is vulnerable. Also for some weird reason Anarres seems to represent USSR since it existence means states on Urras are giving workers some rights, analogically to Western Europe building social nets.
Fantastic book! For anyone interested, you can read it here.
There are, and like any social/political group it’s not a monolith but has plenty of various subsections that would broadly be called “anarchist” but aren’t themselves all in agreement (and at times accuse others of not being “real” anarchists). This watered down meme is just [insert political group here] Utopianism jingoism. Of course people tend to help each other that are like them, leftists tend to be more likely to help outside their tribal communities, but the extent to how much they help and under what circumstances is not blind enabling. If I see a person drowning I’m not going to ask who they voted for before helping. If I see some Trumper with a flat tire… fix it yourself, asshole.
V for Vendetta?
There’s plenty, and they can help, but you ain’t gotta read em. They’re guides and ideas. Nobody ever told me I needed to read Proudhon to think the state’s bad, and usually older texts become more of historical interest than theory interests. When I wanted to understand anarchism I was told to go out and engage in praxis.
Fully agree that that’s the way to learn. Do praxis, theory will develop.
However, I recommend the bread book to anyone I think might enjoy reading something like it. It changed my life fundamentally to see some one lay out the math of how a society could function like that. As suggested above,nthe dispossessed is also an amazing work of theory disguised as a very fun sci fi read. I routinely quote “where do you go when you die in hell” ever since reading it
Jesus Christ. Anarchists not beating the stereotype.
The Dispossessed hit me like a truck, but I wouldn’t call it theory. It’s political fiction that’s subtle about it by using sci fi, but I think calling it anything but a novel/fiction does a disservice to such literature. It does that which all message based fiction aspires to: lies to you in a way that makes you think about the world and see everything differently. I love all of LeGuinn’s books that I’ve read, though I felt Omelas was overrated. I’ll also plug Graeber for easily accessible theory written in modern language for modern life. Bullshit jobs hit hard.
And yeah, theory matters, but only if you do praxis. Do the hungry care more about who you feed them, or that you feed them? Do your coworkers dream of a dictatorship of the proletariat or do they just want their voice heard in the workplace? If all you do is read theory, you’re a book club. The least you could do is mail some dictionaries and whatever other books to prisoners while you discuss the theory. Offer them some zines while you’re at it. What is in your heart and your mind are irrelevant until your actions reveal them.
Well said! And yeah, I was a little heavy handed calling the dispossessed theory. However:
Do the hungry care more about who you feed them
The rich!
Where’s the reading list?
You’re going to trigger so many libs with this link.
Guess I wait for the advanced page.
Reality:
I think this joke is only 40% true, but also still very funny.
bro wat - I’m yet to see a socialist party group turn up to an anti-fash protest and put themselves in harms way to protect vulnerable groups instead of standing on the side lines selling political newspapers and dipping out as soon as their leaders decide they’d like to go home
There are plenty of Socialist revolutions but they happen outside of the first world. Coincidentally anticolonial movements are often opposed by Anarchist because the victims aren’t perfect enough.
on the side lines selling political newspapers
Anarchist 'zines are literally a meme term
yeah that’s fair - but I feel they serve different purposes?
like I see anarchism as a form of counterbalance to state power irrespective of where it is - without needing to be dogmatic
as in undeniably Uruguay is materially much better now than its ever been (while still being at the peak of it’s colonial project even under socialist governance)
same with Bolivia giving relative power to indigenous peoples while improving living conditions even under a corrupt government
neither is perfect but vastly better than western powers seizing their resources and wage enslaving their populations - same goes for other socialist Global South countries
and yet I see the value of anarchist “purity” criticism in that it should continue to challenge all governments when the time is right - even socialist ones - as at the end of the day we all want a stateless society - and until then I dont see why anarchism and socialism can’t strive to achieve that through productive structural tension?
Anarchists are a lot better than Liberals. But when push comes to shove, such as Iran getting invaded, many Anarchists are all too happy to hop on the imperialist fence and hold both-sides stories like it’s a moral high-ground
and yet I see the value of anarchist “purity” criticism
That sounds fun and all but who is going to fight imperialism then? Are colonized countries going to free themselves because Anarchists blocked a weapons shipment but then the Anarchist opposes the resistance force fighting against the colonists? Fidel Castro sent fighters to support the imperfect ANC. Now that was some actual solidarity. Though we don’t see much of that from “socialist” countries anymore either.
idk what anarchists you’re around but all the ones I hang out with are vocally pro Iran even if they dont approve of the Ayatollah on principle - but yh I’d take mls over liberals any day of the week - I feel part of it is that anarchists aren’t a solid block so while some may block shipments other might fight against what they see as oppression that on a geopolitical scale can result in helping colonial forces - idk we’re all imperfect so I hope we can recognize that and through different means still continue to erode imperialism instead of fighting with each other at the benefit of colonizers
Anarchists have been robbing large oligopoly supermarkets in my city and redistributing the food to “community fridges” in my city for a good couple years now.
That’s cool and all but that’s local tier good-samaritan stuff. While it’s good, it will never overthrow the system.
OK, so what are you doing to make a revolution happen?
I won’t speak for Geneva (Geneva isn’t a Marxist) but Marxists advocate for revolutionary party building. You can’t force a revolution into happening, but you can absolutely prepare for one and build the organ needed to carry it out. Herr’s a good diagram:
This explains the role of the party in forming a vanguard.
I’m not condemning those actually fighting the empire for a start.
So in other words you do nothing except write quippy comments on the internet.
That pretty much confirms my personal stereotypes on Marxist Lenninists. Talk constantly about how we need to act more and think less to achieve something while simultaneously doing nothing to enact positive change in the world.
You guys are stuck in the authoritarian mindset, just like capitalists are stuck in the capitalist mindset. You can’t imagine any real alternative to the status quo, you just idealize people that pretended to do so in the past (Lennin, Stalin, Mao). But power and exploitation is still just that. Regardless of if private oligarchs enact it or the state.
You people need to grow up and actually try to do something that changes the world for the better, not just argue with anarchists online.
So in other words you like to conclude a lot from no info of what I do.
Anarchists try to not pretend to have the moral high ground while doing absolutely nothing to fight the empire difficulty level: impossible.
Answer my question then.
You aren’t talking to a Marxist-Leninist, Geneva doesn’t identify as such and does not read theory nor practice in a communist party. I do think Geneva’s critique rings hollow, considering that.
That pretty much confirms my personal stereotypes on Marxist Lenninists. Talk constantly about how we need to act more and think less to achieve something while simultaneously doing nothing to enact positive change in the world.
This is bullshit. MLs say we need to act and think more, and do so by organizing in communist parties. From the Black Panther Party to PSL in the US, communist parties have been doing real organizing work, and that’s not to mention the orgs that have already succeeded like the CPC.
You guys are stuck in the authoritarian mindset, just like capitalists are stuck in the capitalist mindset. You can’t imagine any real alternative to the status quo
This is blind, vibes-based critique. “Authoritarian mindset” isn’t a thing. The problems with organizing in the west are not due to lacking in imagination, to the contrary, western “left” anti-communists let their imagination lead them to opposing real, existing socialism.
you just idealize people that pretended to do so in the past (Lennin, Stalin, Mao). But power and exploitation is still just that. Regardless of if private oligarchs enact it or the state.
This is further bullshit. Marxists of the past that successfully established socialism weren’t “pretending” to do so. Ironically, it’s yourself that is idealizing them into “Great Men of History,” and cutting out the billions of people that organized to create real socialism. MLs do not idolize Marxist figures, we study them, their contributions, their struggles, their successes and their failures, so that we can continue to sharpen our theory to guide our practice. Marxism is a science, not a dogma.
You people need to grow up and actually try to do something that changes the world for the better, not just argue with anarchists online.
I agree, though most of us that are committed enough are already organizing in real life too.
You do condemn those fighting the empire, though. That’s why it’s necessary to both read and practice, not coast by on instinct alone. You have decent political instincts, but instead you obsess over Bad Empanada thought and treat it as a substitute for reading, and posting as a substitute for practice. It’s ultimately online progressivism at best, and is why it rings extraordinarily hollow when coming from you, especially as you haven’t given any indication of reading or practicing, let alone both.
What do you think anarchism is all about…?
Failing to overthrow the system
Usually, both Marxists and anarchists are aligned on believing systemic change is necessary, not just individual and local charity to patch holes in the existing system.
It’s absurd to not help someone now because you could also do something highly theoretical and better in the future. Both things should happen.
Its a common thing with the
.mlto identity an issue and not act due to purity politics. Ask them about voting in primaries (pushing an existing party left or forming their own).We can do multiple things at once. Some for the short others for the long term.
Its a common thing with the .ml to identity an issue and not act due to purity politics.
No? Marxists argue against purity politics all the time. “Left” anti-communism on the basis of existing socialist states not being perfect wonderlands is one of the biggest problems we have to tackle.
Ask them about voting in primaries (pushing an existing party left or forming their own).
Rejecting electoralism as a viable path does not mean doing so on the basis of “purity,” but practicality. Vote in the primaries all you want, the ML argument isn’t that this will make you “sinful,” but that it won’t ever be capable of enacting the change that is necessary.
If I need to change a lightbulb 20 feet in the air, and you come with a 4 foot stepladder, the lightbulb isn’t changing even if you get closer. You have to drive to the hardware store, buy the 20 foot ladder, take it back, set it up, and then change the lightbulb. The stepladder being closer doesn’t actually mean it gets you closer to your goal, that path is a dead-end to begin with, you cannot raise that 4 foot stepladder to a 20 foot lightbulb.
We can do multiple things at once. Some for the short others for the long term.
Sure, and studying theory and applying it to our practice tells us what strategies actually work in the short and long term.
Vote in the primaries all you want
Case in point. This snippet of your language shows that elections are not pure enough and you will not be showing up to help us on this front for a short term relief.
Then you wonder why you get no representation at the table when you explicitly said you don’t want to be heard.
No? My point on elections is that they do not bring short or long-term relief, because candidates are pre-filtered so as to not challenge the status quo. It has nothing to do with purity, and is entirely due to the practical assessment that elections under capitalism cannot answer capitalism’s systemic problems.
I don’t ever wonder why Marxists don’t have electoral representation, we’ve known why for centuries, and it’s because the ruling class fears communists above all else. Just look at the Epstein files, and read about how they refer to the PRC and socialist leaders like Xi Jinping. It’s utter disdain and fear.
Who is “us?” What is your strategy? Is it to vote for whichever pre-filtered candidate is most progressive, and then watch as this candidate loses to the more well-funded pre-filtered establishment candidate? What then? If the only ladders allowed to be available electorally are 4-8 feet tall and you need to change a bulb 20 feet in the air, how do you make progress?
Just making up claims Cowbee never made because you can’t actually argue against him
Condemning the world’s largest resistance in its fight against the empire because of some “theoretical future” where Anarchists once again are incapable of organising any armed uprising because they don’t have a leadership structure is the only thing that happens.
Some people want a revolution and some people want their community fed. These are not mutually exclusive and I’m happy people are doing anything at all instead of hooking themselves up to the short form content IV every night like the vast majority.
Ferb, I know what we’re gonna do today!
Can’t we just watch that one Zeitgeist indie documentary to find out the Venus Project is a thing, and then make open-source Star Trek real?
The theory of Marx, Engels, Lenin and Stalin is universally applicable. We should regard it not as a dogma, but as a guide to action. Studying it is not merely a matter of learning terms and phrases but of learning Marxism-Leninism as the science of revolution. It is not just a matter of understanding the general laws derived by Marx, Engels, Lenin and Stalin from their extensive study of real life and revolutionary experience, but of studying their standpoint and method in examining and solving problems.
I see letterkenny, I upvote letterkenny. I am a simple man.
Anti interlectualism is for losers
More hands make less work. Pitter patter.
Lets get at ‘er
andy how’s your sperms
I don’t get this. Can you explain this?
Oh sorry. In twin peaks, the character Andy has trouble with his sperms (and talks about it funny). Worth watching the show, if not just for that
