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Meanwhile, the Galaxy S line:
Seriously, the Zenfone 10 and S24 have the same size in practice. I don’t know what the hell he’s talking about.
did you watch the video, basically the next Zenfone is a ROG phone lite.
and i say this as a ZF9 user.
Yes, but we still have the S line. So I don’t know about this whole “small flagship is dead” thing.
it’s more or less the idea that companies are starting to ditch the idea. Apple introduced the mini with 12, and 13, and ditched it for the plus models after 2 generations. Asus had it for the 9 and 10, and 11 (so far) is only launching with an Ultra, ditching it after 2 generations. Samsung just has the unique position that its catalog is large enough that itll have some reasonable in terms of SOC, but not technically flagship as it lacks the camera functionality of the top model.
I guess I’m having a little trouble about the “flagship” definition then. I always assumed that the S line was the best Samsung has to offer, the Pro line was the best from Apple, and so it goes. So the S24 and the 15 Pro are flagships, and those have the same size of the Zenfone 10.
But if “flagship” is only the most expensive phone from a company, I’d argue that the ROG phones are flagships from ASUS, not the Zenfone ones. IDK.
The S24 Ultra is the flagship, as it has the 200 MP camera that the normal S24 does not have: https://www.gsmarena.com/compare.php3?idPhone1=12773&idPhone2=12771
MKBHD’s video titles are so click baity now
It’s annoying but I get it. If you want to make it or stay big on YT you gotta play the game, and the majority of people eat up click-baity titles and obnoxious thumbnails.
I don’t disagree but it’s still a shame to see a well established channel needing to go to such lows.
ALL HAIL THE ALGORITHM
Bigger screens make it easier to use as my main computer, thank you.
I couldn’t resist. I’m sorry
Dom Joly moment
BIG
A small phone is useless unless your only goal with it is receiving calls. Even making calls on a small phone is difficult, never mind using the Internet. And losing a larger one still happens, a small one would just disappear like a sock in the dryer.
Sure, there are times when having a bigger phone makes sense, but it hurts a whole lot less when I’m in bed watching something and i drop it on my face.
Have you tried not doing that?
To answer your question, no.
Why would any of these things be worse with a 4.5" screen? My eyesight is fine.
Navigation.
Cars have 12" tablets for dashboards now 💀
That’s a different mess, and there’s some serious pushback on that to bring back actual buttons and dials. 🤣
I’d kill for a sub-6" phone with a physical telephoto lens.
The death of small phones is why I’m so committed to my flip 4. The space it takes up in my pocket or bag is so much less than any “regular” phone.
Pocket space is only half the problem. The other half is one-handed use and the flip is huge when opened.
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Because it’s something you use a lot for small things throughout the day. When you need to quickly answer a message or look at a map you shouldn’t need to stop and place down everything you’re holding.
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I just don’t find I really need to very often, very rarely in fact.
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This is probably very subjective. I’d say I use my phone one-handed about 7/10 times and I’d do it more if I could. Actually I do most things one-handed when possible but I have small hands so phones are becoming an issue. There isn’t a specific reason, it’s just more convenient.
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To me that’s the exact and only purpose of a phone: for it to be a handheld portable computer. For that purpose I should be able to use it with one hand
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To me that doesn’t really compute. I like to see a lot of information on my screen and my eyes aren’t as young as they were.
I do too, but glasses help a lot. In my use case 5" is plenty, though not with default settings: global UI size was tweaked so everything is smaller, and more fits on screen.
I don’t really like looking at curved screens
Neither do I, and I’m doing everything I can to avoid those phones. No feature can balance that huge con.
Flat screens aren’t as easy to do that with especially as I like to use a case.
Hmm, interesting. I’m using gestures too, some more than others, and with a flat screen it’s fine for me.
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I know it’s not everyones cup of tea but…
I ended up buying a Pixel Fold for the Fold aspect. There’s an added benefit that it’s really short when folded so I can reach the entire screen one handed. It’s heavier and thicker than a slate phone, but I actually enjoy the folded experience way better than other phones.
This is true, and honestly my biggest gripe with the phone. I don’t wear small mitts, and I can only comfortably reach 3/4 of the way up the phone. This is exacerbated by the fact that phone application design is in a very top-centric stage right now. I wonder if there’s a way I could extend the android nav bar to take up the top 1/4 of the screen…
On Samsung devices there is an accessibility setting that gives a smaller one-hand screen when swiping down from the bottom bar. But that just feels like a waste of space when you could just have a smaller screen.
That’s available on Pixels as well - I use it a lot even on my smaller 4a. Very handy in a pinch!
Praying the Xperia 5 VI is a bit more compact that the previous iteration. That and Sony actually start supporting their services for at least 5 years -_-
It probably is if the rumour about them switching to a 19.5:9 resolution is true. It’ll still be larger than the S24 and Pixel 8 because of the top and bottom bezel but height should decrease by a couple of mm.
Yeah, the lack of software support made me disregard the Xperia completely (well and its price), which is sad because it is otherwise a great phone with actual useful features that other manufacturers have removed.
There is at least the Unihertz Jellystar, which is a fairly nice tiny phone. Personally I’m likely stuck with Pixel phones because I’m a big fan of Graphene OS, otherwise I’d likely pick one up after my Pixel 4a fails, which might be awhile, since it’s still going strong.
Never heard of the Jelly Star! $200 bucks?! I just ordered one.
Oh, cool! Hope you like it dude :)
Fucking awesome phone. Been my daily driver for a week now.
Typing is horrible, tough, and for anything serious (browsing, streaming…) you will want a bigger screen and general more build quality. Camera, sound quality, screen are all screaming low end.
Super fast charging because the battery is tiny, sill good SOT because the screen is tiny too.
Feels damn good to be able to use and hold your phone one handed in almost any orientation you can hold your arm in.
Keyboard: AnySoftKey and a Compact layout (2 keys, 1 button) is very helpful.
Have you heard of thumb-key keyboard? It’s basically a 3x3 grid with swipe gestures for extra characters. I’ve been trying to switch to it for a bit cause I think eventually my typing will be faster and it will be a better one handed typing experience.
Anyway, I think this would work well on a small screen device too, if you can get used to a whole new keyboard paradigm.
It’s on the IzzyOnDroid repo for f-droid.
Hope this is helpful to someone!
Tried ThumbKey and realized, I’m 100 % used to QWERY/QWERTZ keyboard layouts. The ThumbKey keys are not in roughly the same spots as on a regular keyboard and I just couldn’t get used to this. Damn brain. I might give it another try in the future, because the idea is damn great.
Yeah I had the same problem. I just had to commit to being a slow typer for a while, but I inproved quicker than I thought. Still learning tho. I keep a regular keyboard I can switch to with the button on the bottom right of the home buttons for the rare times I need to type something urgently.
I’ve been using mine since Christmas
It’s amazing how capable this thing is with such a tiny screen
I think he means normal sized phones, instead of the ‘phablets’ we are surrounded by now. I still think the ~6.1 inch screen is the perfect size.
6.1” is too big. I miss the 4.7-5.1” range that they had on the iPhone Mini for example.
For me, it’s about width, not screen size.
My current phone is 6.1", but it’s only 68mm wide, so it’s easy to hold one-handed and slips in & out of my pocket easily. (It’s a Sony Xperia 10 V).
I love everything about this phone except that there’s no NA version, so my phone is missing a couple of the cell bands from my service provider. In particular, the wide band, so I don’t get great reception in the middle of large buildings.
Other than that, it’s great. Lots of RAM so app swapping is quick, and the battery life is so good I have it set to only ever charge to 80% and I’ve only dipped down to 20% on very high usage days. My usual usage is 80-50% daily.
Thats a small phone and I agree they are good too. But 6 is a good size imo, plenty of real estate and cant still be used with one hand.
I can’t use a 6" screen one handed, I doubt most women (who are half the population) can either.
@BearOfaTime @warm at 6", even smaller hands like mine are able to reach within .5cm of the top of the screen. At that size, the weight distribution of the phone is what makes a difference in terms of manageability. For example, the weight distribution of the Pixel 6a (6.1") makes it a breeze to use with my right hand, but a tad more difficult with my left one. Using it in reverse (had to once) is impossible one-handed.
Yeah, that size is certainly the limit for usability tbh. Its diminishing returns past that, I dont need a wider or longer phone, everything can be displayed perfectly on a 6 inch.
I find for me it is half about the usability of thw phone one handed and the other half being pocketability. I don’t want to have to carry a man-purse just to be able to have my phone with me at all times. Front pocket of jeans is where i keep my phone and the pockets are not deep enough to contain the phone without pressing into my hips when i sit. Keeping the phone in the back pocket is just inviting theft.
I just want another Sony Xperia XZ1 Compact with updated specifications.
If you have big hands.
Nah, I have average hand size and can use that size phone with one hand easily. Though I do prefer smaller phones in general and would rather see more choice in that space.
Lol, I call BS.
You clearly don’t have “average size hands” unless you’re excluding women from that calculus.
Even then, an average man probably can’t use a 6" screen one handed. Why else do they ship with “one handed mode” on devices?
Yeah average male hand sorry. Female hands is another reason we need small phones, that and the illegally small pocket sizes they have to put up with!
I can use it one handed, its not the most comfortable thing for every task, but doable. I would not want a phone any larger though.
I can only reach about 5" with the thumb, while holding the phone. But not the opposite edge. Average male hand.
Yeah if you keep the same grip, if I change grip I can reach everywhere, though smaller would definitely be easier and more comfortable.
👶
HTC One dimensions: 146.4 x 70.6 x 9.4 mm
S23 dimensions: 146.3 x 70.9 x 7.6 mm
You don’t account for the MUCH smaller bezels and the different aspect ratio. The phone size is very similar
I definitely think Apple and Samsung can do a smaller premium phone if they want to as Apple makes the lion’s share of profits in the industry and Samsung is the only other manufacturer that makes a significant amount of profit. Heck Samsung can probably do a smaller midrange phone as well. I do not think it makes sense for other manufacturers as they make 3% profit and targeting a very vocal but demanding minority isn’t going to help them improve that.
Small phone users should also temper their expectation, I saw a lot of comments from people saying they didn’t get the iPhone mini because they expected the Pro Max’s specs in the mini form factor. They have to understand that the cameras on the biggest flagships occupy a lot of space and it isn’t feasible to bring it to a smaller form factor. Increasing the thickness might help with the battery but that’s about the only component that benefits with an increase in one dimension.
Small phone users should also temper their expectation
Every time there is a small phone thread here or on reddit most of the comments are from people complaining that there is no small phone with the equivalent features of their near 7-inch flagship. People do not seem to weigh size in the same way as other features and are not willing to make compromises for it. Small phone fans need to think seriously about how important and practical all their supposedly “essential” high end features actually are versus physical size. There have been plenty of chances to buy and own smaller phones in the past and these people didn’t buy them because they weren’t perfect. This is the result.
Yeah it’s strange some of them expect the exact same specs as the Pro or Ultra phone in a smaller form factor. Some sacrifices have to be made to fit components in a smaller form factor as you cannot overcome the laws of physics. I’ve seen many ridiculous comments saying manufacturers can fit the same cameras and all the sensors along with a bigger battery if they made the phone thicker. It’s almost as if they expect the bigger phone to get neutered to maintain parity.
They have to understand that the cameras on the biggest flagships occupy a lot of space and it isn’t feasible to bring it to a smaller form factor.
Not… Really… Sure it makes some difference, but the much more constraining factor is the money. Cameras arent that big, but they’re one of the priciest pieces of hardware in the device.
The problem is more that they keep trying to sell small phones at cheaper price points. So they end up with much worse screens, socs, and cameras so they perform like shit. People don’t want a small phone because they don’t care about their phone. People want small phones because the standard size is fucking huge. They need to make a high-ish tier small phone instead of low tier small phone that performs like the 50 Walmart shit.
Not… Really… Sure it makes some difference, but the much more constraining factor is the money. Cameras arent that big, but they’re one of the priciest pieces of hardware in the device.
There’s isn’t enough physical space for three sensors on a smaller phone especially if it’s the size of the iPhone mini. They can fit them on a 6.1-6.2 inch device, that’s why the S24 and iPhone 15 Pro have them. However the 16 Pro is supposedly getting larger because it’s getting a larger sensor for 5x optical zoom. If you look at a periscope lens, it needs a substantial amount of extra width as well. A teardown of any recent flagship reveals that camera modules occupy more space than they did if you look at tearsowns from three or four years back. This makes sense because the sensor itself is increasing in size and the size needs to go up both length and width wise to maintain the aspect ratio of the sensor. Heck in some cases like the Xiaomi 14 Ultra and Oppo Find X7 Ultra, the camera modules occupy more space than the rest of the motherboard.
The problem is more that they keep trying to sell small phones at cheaper price points.
The iPhone mini was cheaper but it had pretty much the same specs as the regular iPhone except for wireless charging speed iirc. Sales were much lower than the regular model despite that (around or less than 5% of total iPhone 12 and 13 sales). If Apple couldn’t make a smaller phone sell particularly well, I doubt anyone else could.
There’s isn’t enough physical space for three sensors on a smaller phone especially if it’s the size of the iPhone mini
I wouldn’t go as far as to claim that “more cameras” is the complaints being made here. Sure, telephotos make sense as things that take up more space. But most people are using them for like 1 in 50 shots or something. I have an extremely hard time believing that someone would genuinely notice the difference unless they’re an extreme case or they’ve been told the other ones are better. Within reasonable effective focal lengths, these are pretty negligible in the sizes we’re talking about.
If Apple couldn’t make a smaller phone sell particularly well, I doubt anyone else could.
I hard disagree with this. Apple is literally the worst company to try to make this shit work. Apple’s core selling point is the status symbol of it all. People trying to show off having the flashiest phone are not going to buy a product being touted as a half baked smaller and cheaper version of something else. Their entire marketing was about it being mini. Apple customers are not the core audience for something like this, and Apple marketed it as exactly what people disliked about small phones.
around or less than 5% of total iPhone 12 and 13 sales
I find it more surprising that this was below expectations than I do that only 5% of people bought a smaller phone. I doubt much more than 1 in 20 people really is after a smaller phone. I’m sure they exist, but based on the people I know and the number of people I’ve heard interested in smaller phones, I’d estimate it more like 1 in 20 to 1 in 40. It’s not for most people by any means. But 1 in 20 is still a decent number of people.
The S23 and S24 are solid phones at a regular size. So Samsung already do normal sized flagships. It’s the mid-low range that is lacking, they are all oversized in that price range, so people don’t have much choice but to buy an oversized phone.
Yeah they’re regular sized, you could consider the iPhone 15 and 15 Pro as regular sized as well. I think they could probably do a smaller phone about the size of the iPhone 12/13 mini as well if they wanted to. However I’m not sure if they’ll do it since the S22 is their smallest phones since the S10e and they haven’t gone smaller than that unless you go all the way back to the S4 (which itself has a similar width to the S10e). I understand why they wouldn’t do it because it seems the people who want an iPhone 5S to iPhone mini sized phone are extremely vocal but that doesn’t seem to translate to numbers in real life.
People would probably buy smaller phones if given the correct choices, I think the iPhone 15 size is good yeah. iPhone is often a fashion statement, so people usually want the highest end they can get and manufacturers tend to put more features in their bigger more expensive models.
There’s no options in the mid-range for smaller phones, most are over 6.5 inches. So people are forced into buying them, there’s definitely a large market for small phones, but manufacturers force them into larger models. I suspect they are easier/cheaper to make, so that’s what we get. Also bigger numbers = better right, so they’d rather crank the marketing on battery, screen etc.
I don’t think they’re going to be able to put the same cameras on a smaller phone, especially if you look at something like the Xiaomi 14 Ultra or the Oppo Find X7 Ultra. The sensors are massive and require a lot of space. You may be able to fit two of those sensors on a 6.1 inch phone without compromising on other things like the battery, haptics, antennae for example. They could probably fit a bigger battery by making the phone thicker but it seems like manufacturers like a uniform thickness for most of their models or somewhere thereabouts probably because it’s easier to machine the frame.
Of course there’s some limitations yeah, though the S24 and iPhone 15 have great cameras, more than enough for the majority of people. Most people aren’t power users and won’t even look at specs in-depth, just a glance at what it looks like, storage and price. Size would definitely be a factor people would consider (and already do when they can) and it’s a real shame there aren’t more options.
To be honest looking at the teardowns it’s impressive what Apple and Samsung have managed to fit in their phones, I think the Xiamoi 14 Ultra isn’t doing itself any favours with that camera placement though, seems inefficient having the modules in the middle of the phone?
I’m not a fan of the cameras on the S24 and base iPhone 15. Samsung have recycled the same cameras for three generations now, I think they can put a larger primary sensor in there.
To be honest looking at the teardowns it’s impressive what Apple and Samsung have managed to fit in their phones, I think the Xiamoi 14 Ultra isn’t doing itself any favours with that camera placement though, seems inefficient having the modules in the middle of the phone?
Idk, Apple does a better job with the Pro as compared to the regular model. Google, Xiaomi and Asus managed to fit bigger batteries on the Pixel 8, Xiaomi 14 and Zenfone 10 without increasing the size too much. Here’s a teardown of the Xiaomi 14 Ultra. It seems like they’re using space pretty efficiently in there.
Fair enough, but I think for most people the cameras are more than enough. I haven’t used the iPhone ones but the Samsung ones are honestly fantastic already. It’s diminishing returns past that point, like it’s buying an actual camera territory.
It feels like with the cameras in the middle, they have to have smaller PCB area around them? Whereas if they are to the side, there’s a larger space for a PCB. I don’t know though, I think the phone is ugly anyway.
I just went phone shopping not too long ago and had the opposite experience. Bigger phones are way harder to find now. Where the hell are the 6 or 7 inchers? 😩
That’s what she said… sighs
I don’t get why you’d want a smaller phone unless you’re looking to get one in a flip-phone style form factor. I’d be down for that. I miss being able to accurately text from my pocket.
Have you heard of women? Or maybe teenagers with not-so-large hands?
Most larger phones have a single-hand mode that gives you kind of a picture-in-picture of the screen itself.
Are you stupid…? You still have to hold the phone in one hand. One-handed mode doesn’t change the physical width of the phone.
Ok? The issue wasn’t clearly defined. There’s always pop sockets and similar to make it easier to hold. That said, my teenaged kids have 0 be issue holding this phone so idk what OP is on about
I don’t get why you’d want a smaller phone
Being able to hold the phone comfortably and securely in your hand is really important for me. I’d love to be able to reach the vast majority of the screen without having to shuffle the phone in my hand or use two hands. I very rarely watch any videos on my phone, or play any games that require a large screen.
My wifes iPhone 12 Mini is a perfect size.
One-handed mode exists if you need to reach the whole area of the interface with one hand, albeit it won’t help if grip is an issue. Maybe a pop socket kinda thing for that?
Because I don’t want this giant thing in my pocket that’s also hard to hold, let alone use one handed.
Using one handed isn’t really an issue if you toggle the one-handed mode…
Galaxy S3 was comfortable to chat and surf. One or two words less per line but it fit in your pocket and your hand didn’t get tired from the weight.
I went S2 -> S5 -> S8+ -> Note 10+ -> S23 Ultra
Never really felt my phone was too big, though there are times where I’ve got a show to go to and wish I had a cheap flip phone to fall back on. The older phones seemed fine at the time until I realized how much better the bigger screens were. I’m not sure I’d want one bigger than the S23 Ultra, unless it folded out to a tablet.
I hate small phones. I switched back to an iphone SE years ago and realized it was a pita to use anymore. Everything is… too small.
Because there is no demand, display manufacturers don’t produce small phone displays anymore. And because there’s no small display in stock, phone manufacturers have given up on producing small smartphones. Technically, you can contract the display manufacturers to restart production of small phone displays, but no one seems to be interested in taking the upfront risk.
It started as a hardware problem and doesn’t seem to be slowing down. LTE needed more and larger antennae for lower frequencies than older tech. Four cellular antennae are now pretty standard. Then you have wifi, Bluetooth (which can share if they can TDM), wireless charging, NFC, ultra wideband, GNSS. Then the chips are so powerful they need heat dissipation systems installed (or just lame thermal throttling like what Apple does.)
The modems require more power, (especially at the beginning of LTE) which means bigger batteries. LTE and NR have reduced range compared to the older narrowband technologies, so the phone needs to use more power to transmit, especially when carriers like Verizon didn’t backfill cell sites to compensate for the reduced coverage.
Then, cameras, one wasn’t enough, 4 or 5 are very common now (usually 3 primary and depth or low res sensors for aiming.)
When tablets became popular, many people decided to just have a large phone screen rather than a tablet, further entrenching the size.
The tech is more mature now, a 2-antenna MIMO antenna for cellular would suffice, albeit at the expense of network performance. Likewise one camera with a depth sensor would work, although mobile photography would be more limited. Dropping some limited-use items like wireless charging and ultra wideband could further shrink space.
So it would be possible now, but as others here have mentioned, the supply side focuses on larger hardware.
Ironically, at this point I’d almost prefer a smart watch with LTE and stop carrying a phone altogether. However, the aforementioned antenna issue makes it so watches generally have poor to unusable signal, poor battery life in cellular mode, no camera, and the 5G NR low power spec/chips aren’t fully done yet, so it’s LTE only on them, which, with carriers transitioning to 5G will make it so watches can only access a handful of congested bands.
Also, that device manufacturers tend to design smart watches to be companion devices to a smartphone rather than primary makes that concept’s execution problematic.
Another idea I had that was anti small phone but huge battery boost was to just bring a backpack or a satchel or whatever. Carry a full sized tablet around, and use a Bluetooth headset for calls. However, tablets are also often crippled by carriers/manufacturers so they can’t do common things like SMS or voice calls, and Apple has basically monopolized that market.
