- Harry Potter Fandoms will be a part of the Fediverse one way or the other. It’s better to shape this development rather than being overwhelmed by it.
- Harry Potter Fandoms are a huge opportunity for the Fediverse. Look at what the collaboration of Lego and Disney brought to Fortnite. People want to spend time in places, in which they feel familiar and welcomed. I’m not saying collaborating with big companies here, what I’m saying is: the Fediverse needs to be filled with life and we have to use that opportunity first, before others do.
- Don’t throw the opinions of J.K. Rowling and its fandom in one bucket. It’s one of the biggest in the world, there is a broad range of opinions and people.
- The Fediverse needs more projects that immediately make sense to people. Projects that you tell a person about, and they say: “Oh, yeah, that makes sense.” Mastodon in comparison to Twitter was such a thing: its billionaire proof. Everybody gets why that’s a good thing. A better, more open place to build Harry Potter fan sites could be another.
- The project (including other places like this that may follow) could also become another attractive place on the Fediverse for the open-source community. Who wouldn’t be excited to help build the world of Harry Potter?
All of this is of course up for discussion. I’m a very stubborn person but I’m also able to listen ;)
Edit: I removed “queer friendly” from the description. Its not a claim that I can fully uphold anyways. Instead, it has a no tolerancy policy against transphobia, which is more clear and probably easier to enforce.
Here is the link: https://diagonlemmy.social
Sounds cool. I’m not a Harry Potter fan and certainly no fan of Rowling, but I’m really surprised that this is controversal.
How do you explain the Fediverse? You can find an instance you like. Harry Potter people can have theirs.
Fuck this.
Best of Luck to you. I find that a creator is indelibly linked to their creation, while they are still living (and their beliefs definitely color it long after they are dead). So, while Rowling draws breath, I endeavor to give her neither profit nor advertising. I do absolutely understand the draw that the fandom has, despite the very problematic aspects of the setting - I’m not going to shit on what people enjoy, though I think that acknowledging the problematic is important.
More than anything, I see that there are a lot of extremely creative people in the fandom. This is easy to prove. You just need to look at all of the cosplayers over the years that have made their own costumes from scratch. I hope that some channel that creative energy into making something better and more inclusive (that doesn’t fund hate against trans people).
I removed “queer friendly” from the description. Its not a claim that I can fully uphold anyways.
This statement alone is worth considering defederation. If you have to walk back on “queer friendly”, it says a whole lot about the community you’re building.
Oh no, not them removing a vague vibe in place of an explicit policy on transphobia.
What an absurd reason to defederate a server
Read it fully dammit - OP outright said “Instead, it has a no tolerancy policy against transphobia, which is more clear and probably easier to enforce.”
The matter here is subjectivity. What two people consider “friendly” depends on a thousand factors; and that won’t change just because they’re both queer.
As such, “this is queer-friendly” is a hard promise to keep. It breaks once the first queer person says “I’m queer, and I don’t consider this friendly”. And since queer people are individuals, they’re bound to find different things “friendly”.
However, once you say “no tolerance towards transphobia”, the picture changes. Transphobia exists on a discursive level; it’s shit that people say that denigrates trans people. And the discourse is not something inside someone’s mind, it’s the stuff that is shared by people, thus far more objective.
For example, if I were to utter something transphobic, I wouldn’t have room to say “well, that person there is queer, and they didn’t feel offended”. It’s transphobic so it gets the chop.
Alternatively, think on it another way. Would you rather stumble upon a community and then realise that it’s friendlier than it looks like? Or one that promises something vague, that won’t hold true for your personal experience? I’d probably prefer the former, and I think that most other people - including the queer ones - are the same.
Could you provide the instance url?
diagonlemmy.social
Honestly, it’s not even about JK Rowling, the actual Harry Potter series has very poor values in general, and the world is quite poorly written. Not something I’d want to promote to other people or children regardless of Rowling’s nonsense. The books turned me off very much as a kid though the movies are much more palatable. It’s just a really mean series.
Oh ok
The responses in this thread highlight my point. If you don’t have explicit rules to stop that shit in its tracks (which you don’t), you aren’t queer friendly, because queer folk can’t exist there without being told that transphobia is fine actually, as long as you like the person doing it.
The responses in this thread highlight my point.
What responses? The ones who say they can separate the content from the creator?
If you don’t have explicit rules to stop that shit in its tracks (which you don’t)
Here are the rules. The first rule is about not attacking groups of people. So yeah.
Don’t bother, the person you’re replying to has a storied history of notoriously bad takes, such as “porn of petite women is the same thing as CSAM” (paraphrased), and deleting comments that call out their awful takes in communities/instances they run. They aren’t a sensible person.
Bro it’s fucking Ada. You can safely ignore them, they get bitchy about everything.
I think this is a good idea and wish you all the best.
Moderation will be key of course, but the rules ( http://diagonlemmy.social/post/108 ) sound good.
At the same time, if somebody doesn’t even want to think about HP, they can easily block the entire instance, no harm no foul.
Divorcing the author from the work is rather challenging when that author is a living billionaire who makes money whenever you buy any kind of merchandise of their work. While pirating their trademarks without paying is in principle harmless, the moment you cross over into, say, paying money for Harry Potter Lego or Harry Potter Fortnite skins, you are then immediately funding the author’s hate campaigns
The instance name is clever, but I think you will find the concept embarrassing in hindsight. I would recommend not doubling down on the cognitive dissonance
People don’t seem to realize that their consumption of a product is seen by its beneficiaries.
Sure not YOU directly, but when someone sees “oh this place also set up something dedicated solely to the thing I made, they must really like me and approve of the things I do/say!” and others who agree with their shitty views think “oh they agree too, otherwise why promote it?”
Is it possible to separate the creatOR from the creatION? Yes. But not for everyone, and many of those who can’t will see your support as support of their own shitty ideals that match the creators’.
Sure, you may not be antisemitic, but the country club you go to for lunch sure is. Go ahead and pretend you’re not supporting them I guess.
Is it possible to separate the creatOR from the creatION? Yes. But not for everyone, and many of those who can’t will see your support as support of their own shitty ideals that match the creators’.
If it would be that easy, yes. But you ignore that H.P. does have a cultural value to it. Now you could try to re-build this, but first of all: it will be pretty hard to come up with something that no one feels offended by. And second of all: it will be pretty hard to come up with something that is equally popular.
For me, this is about post-structuralism vs. structuarlism. The current zeigeist is all about “deconstruction”, but if you de-construct everything, you are left with nothing. You need to build something new and that structure will always leave some room to deconstruct.
So I’m for leaving some of these cultural structures even if they are in parts worth overcoming. In case of the social web, which the Fediverse tries to create: it will not work without some kind of cultural structure on which it is build. People don’t want to spent time in a non-place, the Metaverse already failed because of that (at least its first try).
Post-structuralism is bad. Its anti-liberal and currently a big problem on the left imo.
I love to be able to reclaim works from their hateful authors, especially cultural ones. I’m a big fan of Lovecraft, and that dude was hateful. He makes JK Rowling look sweet and kindly. But it’s a lot easier to reclaim the narrative and make it a part of our culture when the author is literally dead.
Lovecraft is a cornerstone of modern fiction, despite being a bigot. We can acknowledge how he was a terrible person, even analyze it, but we know that our enjoyment of Lovecraftian fiction isn’t benefiting Lovecraft’s hateful causes, especially because the work is public domain.
In contrast, JK Rowling is not only still alive, she is active and vocal about her hatred, how she spends her money towards hate, and how she considers support of Harry Potter in light of her hate to be support of her vile views.
Consumption of media is not a passive action. Even if you do not actively give any money to the franchise, promoting the franchise encourages other people to do so, and then their money goes to fund hate.
I understand that HP is important to a lot of people. It was a cultural phenomenon. But we aren’t leaving it behind just because JK Rowling said something offensive. We’re leaving it behind because the author is actively using our consumption to fund hate and campaigning to deny rights to trans people.
There are plenty of other forms of media, new and old, that aren’t being piloted by known bigots. If you want a cultural backbone, using one that is currently controlled by a bigot will probably make a lot of trans people feel unwelcome at best and at worst, if HP continues to be a cultural phenomenon on a large scale JK Rowling will use the platform and the money to further the oppression of transgender rights.
I love to be able to reclaim works from their hateful authors, especially cultural ones. I’m a big fan of Lovecraft, and that dude was hateful. He makes JK Rowling look sweet and kindly. But it’s a lot easier to reclaim the narrative and make it a part of our culture when the author is literally dead.
Agreed. The athmosphere he creates is great but that dude was really problematic.
I understand that HP is important to a lot of people. It was a cultural phenomenon. But we aren’t leaving it behind just because JK Rowling said something offensive. We’re leaving it behind because the author is actively using our consumption to fund hate and campaigning to deny rights to trans people.
Sure, we find ourselves in a pickle, there. On the one hand, she is actively harming people and this will stay this way until it eventually becomes part of the public domain.
However, boycotting Harry Potter also comes as a price that, at least I would argue, also hurts minorities. Because the places create structure, which protects vulnarable people.
Why don’t we replace it with something else that does the same? Well, because in my opinion, Harry Potter culturally serves as a mythologization of the digital. People use it to understand the digital world. In past centuries, humans always made up stories and myths to understand complex concepts. The same thing is happening with the digital world and Harry Potter is one of the first to do this. It has a unique and central societal purpose.
That doesn’t mean that it can be improved, as can be seen in Hogwarts Legacy, which is kind of progressive, and also still slightly antisemetic, which is not so great, BUT I think overall the books still do much more good for vulnarable people than anything Rowling does against them, if she wants it or not.
So at the end of my line of thought, I always end up with two options: either create something new that does the same thing as H.P. while being more progressive but still hugely popular (which is hard to impossible), or to use H.P. and build on top of it to make it more modern (which is much easier).
What I would like to see more in these discussion is the question how EFFECTIVE Rowlings actions really are and if boycotting doesn’t hurt more than it helps.
Harry Potter spaces are not unique in creating structure. There are tons of fandoms, with millions of members. It’s not the first modern fandom by any means either. It’s not like if HP suddenly disappeared there wouldn’t be any fandoms of equivalent or larger size to provide “structure” to vulnerable people. Lots of them have more queer people in them too, and less transphobia.
I’m not sure what makes Harry Potter uniquely digital in your mind either. I’m sure you can interpret it as being about that, but I don’t think that’s the interpretation most people walk away with. Even if it really is a lens some people use to understand the Internet or whatnot, I certainly don’t think it’s the first story to be used in that way… There are a lot of stories that can claim that title that far predate Harry Potter, many of which have fandoms of their own.
I just don’t think HP is an essential backbone of culture. It’s important to a lot of people, for sure. And I can’t imagine what it’s like to realize that the creator of a work that’s so important to you is a terrible person. That has got to be a really shitty situation to be in. But there are other fandoms out there. There’s other great fiction, written by authors who won’t weaponize your consumption against minorities. It’s not a dichotomy of either you embrace Harry Potter or you must write your own.
But what are these other franchises? I seriously don’t know any that strike the same nerve as H.P.
Why don’t we replace it with something else that does the same?
This, it is our duty as people with good taste in media to promote better and less popular books to children. Earthsea by leguin, his dark materials by Pullman etc. hundreds of better books out there filling the same niche
But none of them is anywhere near the popularity of Harry Potter. In the german-speaking area, his dark material and Earthsea are even less common.
idk anything about german literature, i’m russian :( but when i was small i really liked the books momo and neverending story
I personally think it’s a very bad idea and politics will catch up on you eventually. But whatever floats your boat.
So…where is it? Where is the link? I don’t see a link.
Rowling is an hell of a woman. She’s donated more money than we will ever earn and doesn’t dodge her taxes.
She lost her billionaire status a few years ago after donating between 160 to 200 million quid!
Say what you want about her views on gender, but she has done more good for the world than most.
Introduced an entire generation to reading. Millions of kids who weren’t big readers picked up lifetime habits!
Started or donated to many charities. Including the Multiple Sclerosis Society Scotland, The Maggie’s Centres for Cancer Care, Doctors Without Borders, and more. She founded the Children’s High Level Group, known as Lumos, which works to “end the systematic institutionalization of children across Europe and help them find safer, more caring places to live.” She has also contributed to various other charitable causes through her philanthropic trust, Volant.
Helped save female Afghani lawyers from the taliban.
Funded the Anne Rowling Regenerative Neurology clinic in Edinburgh.
And rather more contentiously, has stuck to her guns about the areas where she believes sex should take precedence over gender identity in the face of abuse, rape and death threats.
And now employment tribunals are ruling again and again that gender critical views are perfectly reasonable to hold and in fact are legally protected.
we just tolerate terf apologia now?
Yeah that doesn’t mean what you think it means.
it does.
I mean of course you, the person misusing that term, think that.
i’m using it correctly
Look at what the collaboration of Lego and Disney brought to Fortnite.
I’m not sure if this is the example you want to follow
Did this even went through?
Yes your post came through!
Wishing you best of luck with your server. You will need strict moderation to keep transphobia out.
Is this actually true? Rowling herself aside, I don’t think I’ve ever seen an openly transphobic Harry Potter fan - granted I also don’t spend a huge amount of time in Harry Potter forums and stuff.
There’s a loud minority who think Joanne is basically their god-empress and think she can do no wrong. There’s also a bit of people who became fans purely because their shitty views align with her shitty views.
people who became fans purely because their shitty views align with her shitty views
Didn’t know that’s a thing, but I guess people find others to follow using different means and that could be one 😞
This people are probably still on Twitter and Reddit and far from here
I think most fans are fine, all I’m saying is that it takes one or two malicious jerks and the space quickly becomes queer-unfriendly, which is why I suggest strict moderation, no tolerance for bigotry.
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Ok thanks :)
