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if texas did secede the federal US government would be blue for decades LMFAO. granted, texas is getting bluer by the day but still.
Hey now - Texas has the state guard too - do you think the entire weight of the Pentagon, it’s carrier strike groups, and multiple branches of well-funded modern military is any match for ~1,600 good ol’ boys?
Also worth noting of that -1600. A fair % have family friends and even lovers not living in texas. In 2024 with easy transport etc and cheap communication. It really is impossible for any state to relly on its own current resources. Things would shuffle hugely in the lead up and post the first attacks. Likely the 1600 would grow from good old boys joining. But experience and command structure would be a mess for a while.
Of course US forces would see the same but less so. Some would have friends and relatives in texas. Many would bulk at the domestic part of foreign and domestic.
Professionals.s following orders can only go so far as far as preventing personal politics.
Even in the civil war many refused allegence to the side they were expected to fight for. With Internet and more communication of the 2000s. Allegiances will be less not more founded.
I think if Texas pulled the trigger on secession, there’d be a few states that joined up with them, I don’t know that it’d be the entire US against just one state. If they seriously went for it, it’d probably be because they thought they had enough strength in numbers.
Unfortunately for them though, Republican-leaning states tend to have lower populations and wouldn’t really be able to provide much help. Florida I guess has a big population too, but not sure how helpful they’d be either with their demographics.
On the plus side though, we could potentially clear out alot of these MAGA idiots in office, assuming we actually started punishing people for insurrection.
It’s just political posturing.
- They don’t have a military. The National Guard units would come under the command of the President of the US, and any units in rebellion would know they’re facing courts martial for crimes that would be career limiting in that the penalties could include anything from life in prison to execution. It’s literally treason by the legal definition.
- Even if any significant number of troops were to choose to violate the law, modern war isn’t about riflemen. There’s a massive infrastructure required to keep tanks and planes running, not to mention things like carrier battle groups. Northrop and Raytheon aren’t going to be forfeiting USG contracts to sell missile systems to Ohio.
- Only the president has the nuclear codes, so nuclear blackmail can’t work either.
There isn’t going to be another civil war. Too much has changed between then and now in terms of military and economic organization. This is just Texas whacking off yet again, as they did under Obama and Bill Clinton.
The very real risks we’re facing are the election of Donald Trump - this is the biggest threat - and far right domestic terrorism. The former is an existential threat to the United States and should be treated as such. The latter is a law enforcement issue and should be treated as such. I suspect the Proud Boys are infiltrated all to hell as are the other major organizations, but there’s the potential for a significant amount of harm being done on a larger than 9/11 scale, although it’d be drawn out.
Only the president has the nuclear codes, s
try 0000000, that’s what it has been for most of the time I believe.
That’s the combination I use for my luggage.
Except for that time it was CPE-1704-TKS
Ok try both just in case
?
modern war isn’t about riflemen. There’s a massive infrastructure required to keep tanks and planes running, not to mention things like carrier battle groups.
The problem is that they don’t need to ‘win’ to get what they want; they just need to be enough of a nuisance to get concessions from the government. And both Ukraine and Gaza are showing us how effectively a bunch of people with rifles, drones and RPGs can frustrate an army. Sure, a lot of them will die, but I worry that it might be a sacrifice their leaders are willing to make if that means they get to hurt a lot of innocent people.
All their national guards will be federalized and fall in line the second they are told their lifelong benefits will be revoked if they disobey an order to remain in place.
Most of them are under 25s that joined for free healthcare and education they couldnt afford on their own. A fraction of a percentage are willing to fight and die in the name of a state, let alone one they dont live in 😂
Hi, I was an under 25 that needed Healthcare, and wanted a formal education.
I personally am of the belief that one has a duty to disobey any illegal order, and since this fits the bill,a sizeable number would disobey on that premise alone.
But I also know that’s not likely what does it, but benefits and pay.
I personally know several people who honestly think that “THREE PERCENT!” of the population could honestly stand against their parent country in modern day. And of course, they hold that belief purely from their “only 3% fought the British” and think that a colonial territory in 1776 would somehow translate to home country rebellion in 2024.
Could they do damage and be a nuisance, and create generational issues? Absolutely. Succeed and establish themselves as a respected sovereign nation, or conquer the federal government? Anyone who honestly thinks that’s feasible without the federal government saying “eh, whatever I don’t really care” is fooling themselves.
My time in the navy was more than enough to convince me that no state could ever pull that off, just on Naval power alone. Largest navy, 2nd largest air force, marines technically part of it (don’t ever tell them that unless you have their favorite flavor of crayon as an apology) and since the federal government knows literally every single thing about their off/Def capabilities are, it would be over before my hot chocolate gets cold.
The larger the state, the more internal resistance there will be. Not everyone in Texas or Florida will want to secede, and everybody can buy a gun. It’s one thing to gather some pride boys and meal team six larpers in the town square and march around for a bit, but it’s an entirely other thing to defend territory when you’re outnumbered, outgunned, and half the population is against you.
Oklahoma and Arkansas might be up for it, but there’s no way secessionists hold Miami or Austin.
So you’re saying Texas is big enough that they’d Yo Dawg their civil war?
That is most ridiculous way to describe society dissolving into each street fighting those next to it.
It’s perfect.
Not just that, but the economic powerhouses are almost exclusively cities run by Democrats. Even deep red states have Democrats as mayors of their big cities. Texas would have a hard time funding a war if they were trying to do it on the backs of porcupines.
2 issues there: the food and fuel for those cities move through the traitor parts of the state. Supply lines will be a major issue in the early weeks of any major event. In addition to that, those blue cities aren’t homogeneous just like their states aren’t, so there will be further subdivision past the metro line.
Counter point: how will they pay for an army, the power grid, and supplies? Not to mention the fact that the local ar-15 touting, walmart-scooter-surfer isnt equipped to protect its supply lines from air superiority, let alone a global navy, when blockaded?
They will face the same issues that destroyed them 160 years ago, but 1000x the difficulty
That works both ways, though, and the US Military is going to have significant logistics advantages. Coastal cities can resupply from boats, and Texas doesn’t have anti-aircraft defenses along the northern and western borders. In the event of a declared armed insurrection, it won’t last long enough for milk to go bad in the fridge.
And you have a hitbox that is quite a bit larger than normal, and various health style related illnesses dependent on the free flow of medicine
Nah, as someone who lives in Oklahoma, about half the younger generation has a functioning nervous system that would prevent that from happening. If we seriously tried to go any more red, there would be violence in the streets.
Republican states are all running in the red and I don’t mean the political red. They’re constantly getting financially bailed out by everyone else. It’s gross.
Just seeing Alberta Canadian born Ted Cruz gone from the USA is more than enough for most of us
His real name is Rafael Cruz and I think it’s time we start using it.
It’s really funny to me that he chose “Ted”. When’s the last time you met a Ted who didn’t suck?
Not only is this just about the only deadnaming I support, I think we should all use the Spanish rolled “R.”
Also it’s the only time I’d be comfortable saying “No, where are you really from?”
No. Sorry, I know you’re going for a joke and I don’t wanna be a buzz kill. But it’s still messed up to deadname. Doesn’t matter if they are cis, trans or an asshole.
Look I totally agree he is a massive piece of shit. But so is Caitlyn Jenner and Blair White. Every single person everywhere has the right to their identity and to conceptualize themselves however they wish. And if we make respecting those choices, such as their name, contingent on good behavior that just signals to every trans person watching that we also have conditional respect to exist and function in society comfortable, safely and normally.
I’m not defending Ted, he is a major PoS, but defending the concept that no one can control how they were born and those circumstances should not be a limitation on how any one wished to live their life.
The joke is that it is emphatically not deadnaming. It’s disregarding a preferred nickname, but calling into the discussion the topic of deadnaming because he and his culture are massively transphobic.
I know we’re just two strangers passing in the night, but I want to be extremely clear that I would never deadname someone, regardless of their political beliefs or their stance relative to the trans community. I completely and totally respect the rights of all trans persons and for all people to define who they are.
I will also continue to call X Twitter and refer to it as deadnaming for the same reason, but if tomorrow Elon were to come out as trans I would respect their chosen names and pronouns.
I’m a cis gendered mostly gay man who has been active in the LGBT political and civil rights community since the days of ACT UP, I know the semiotics of genderism well enough to put together a course on it, and I’ve seen every episode of Pose.
I know your comment was very well meant, and I am in no way criticizing you for it. It’s coming from the best of places. I just want to be very clear where I’m coming from as well.
Well I appreciate your collected response, it’s very common for these type of situations to turn in to a flame war. I entirely feel you and agree that Cruz is not a deadname situation. But after sitting with and pondering your response all day, I think my real rub comes down to the term deadname like thus? I’ll be the first to admit that maybe i, as a trans woman, might be too close or sensitive to be totally objective here. But while I get that you were doing a joke, steaming from it NOT being a deadname situation but treating it as one felt to me as you were thinking it’s funny to actually deadname people. And that just sorta stuck me. Maybe my reply had more to do with me than with you, but this is something I’ve seen a lot lately. It a trans person does something that makes the internet angry, suddenly to a ton of people deadnaming does become fun to them. And I felt like you were going at the same vein.
You’re right, we are just two passing strangers. And I don’t have to like every comment in the whole of lemmy, but it felt wrong to not say something. Nagged at me when I scrolled away, so I just wanted to clarify. Even though I know those sort of relies only ever get downvotes. 😂
So you go in peace bestie, I’m sending you all the good vibes and hope you have a wonderful day! ♥ 💕
Thank you so much for your thoughtful and kind response.
You have changed my mind on the subject. As a queer person it’s easy to see us as one big community, and I know that things like humor can read totally differently than how they sound over brunch. And as I said, I have always meant that kind of parodying in an explicitly trans supporting kind of way.
But your comment made me understand that those are not my jokes to make. We are all team rainbow, but the experiences of the trans community, especially now, belong to the trans community. While it was not my intention to trigger an emotional reaction, the fact that I did so and your very gentle and kind correction has made me resolve to not make that mistake again.
So you changed a mind today and educated a person. Thank you, and all love to you ❤️
He’s more American than Canadian. You broke it you bought it.
Hey… he’s only HALF Albertan, so only half of our dumbest region. Whoever his other parent was, that person bears the rest of the responsibility for this deeply concerning narcissist.
Sure, it’s just hilarious that “Lyin’ Ted” tries to pretend he is a Texan, when he was clearly born in Canada 🇨🇦
Alberta might as well be Texas.
Albertan here, not true!
…Alberta is the horrid love child of Texas, Florida, and Alabama
The missiles at night
Are big and bright
Launched at the heart of Texas
Anyway good luck being a large economy with no trade partners and ports blockaded.
Not gonna lie, that title sounds like it could be a Sabaton lyric.
https://youtu.be/gvjOG5gboFU?si=4imDnRPvbVWTQexp
It’s the Union version of Dixie
So I was right that it’s a lyric, just not a Sabaton one 😅
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
https://piped.video/gvjOG5gboFU?si=4imDnRPvbVWTQexp
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source; check me out at GitHub.
In total war Warhammer, when playing as Karl Franz, what was the phrase that the advisors said as soon as the game began, when you had to deal with the secessionists at the south? Open dissent will not be tolerated or something? I thought of that when reading this post for some reason xD lol lmao
Are there any Warhammer novels that exist and do you recommend any?
This would be so much fun to watch. They wouldn’t be able to take the US army with them, US army bases would be dismantled, nukes would be removed, Mexico would be like “fuck no” and have no trade with them, and the US, being their former Union, would also give them the finger. Thousands, plug not millions of people would cross borders there to either leave or join the shit hole (because fuck the liberal US government!) causing a huge outflux of knowledge and competence and a huge influx of rednecks.
Let me be clear though: this will never happen, because the politicians calling for this know damn well that they’d be fucked. They’re just riling their base with dumb but popular rhetoric.
If I was in texas, and I was forced to make the choice of whether to uproot everything and leave because of politics, or stay in a shithole…
well, damn, I’d fight back pretty hard against any government that would put me in the position where I would have to make that choice. Abbot and his ilk are going to be screwed from every direction if they keep pushing this poison.
Most of the US military is mostly made up of conservatives, and red states are the only ones with some semblance of a manufacturing base as blue states nowadays are mostly IP farms. I dont think a hypothetical civil war will turn out as well as blue staters think.
Ok putting aside the obvious that 99% of US Military service members honor their oath to the Constitution and respect the chain of command serving the sitting President regardless of politics. Not least of which the DOD has been purging insurrectionist sympathisers the past few years.
So the brass tax of the US Military, our most valuable assets by a LOT are the US Navy. 2nd would be the USAF. Primary of which is arguably our Submarine force, followed by our sea warfare, then our air forces, and the rest of our nuclear arsenal.
Our largest sub base is in CT (blue).
The entirety of our carrier fleets are based in blue states - California, Hawaii, Virginia (blueish).
A significant portion of our nuclear stockpile is in Colorado (blue).
Anyway it all doesn’t matter because any insignificant numbers who would defect would be nowhere near the command of these critical assets. The only real annoyance of Texas seceding would be having to relocate NASA HQ lmao.
I’m highly doubtful that a second Civil War would be like the first. I’m more of the opinion that we’d see something along the lines of the Troubles in Ireland.
Maintaining a fighting force requires a ton of money and the loss of international markets in the Civil War hurt the Confederacy greatly. Inflation in the Confederacy shot through the roof. Paired with the Union’s successful blockade, the Union securing most rivers, and the Union pretty much destroying every bit of infrastructure in the Confederate States, the Confederacy had massive economic woes that plagued morale.
I’m really doubtful that any State wanting to secede wants to lose access to the US dollar as it would wreck their economy. I just don’t see it being the way the Civil War was fought as it would almost guarantee a repeat.
Wars are fought along a lot more lines than just the ones where bullets matter.
Most of the US military is mostly made up of conservatives
That’s a generous interpretation of the word most. Among active duty plus veterans the US military is 34% Republican. If you take out veterans it’s only 26%.
https://news.gallup.com/poll/118684/military-veterans-ages-tend-republican.aspx
and red states are the only ones with some semblance of a manufacturing base
Straight up ridiculous nonsense.
https://www.industryselect.com/blog/top-10-us-states-for-manufacturing
California is not only top for manufacturing, but grows half the food in the country.
I dont think a hypothetical civil war will turn out as well as blue staters think.
It’s not going to happen, not even in your wildest, most traitorous fever dreams.
Manufacturing is usually urban, and last I checked that’s where most blue is. Farming and agriculture is red, sure.
Military is split, infantry probably skews red but the AF seems mixed and the Navy is pretty liberal in my experience.
Fun fact, there are 3 major power grids in the lower 48 united states’: the Eastern Interconnection, Western Interconnection, and Texas.
Another fun fact: The failure of one of those grids resulted in over 200 people freezing to death. Guess which one!
Yeah that’s the irony, Texas wouldn’t even need to secede to fuck up its power grid.
Texarse.
Texas secessionists have not considered the ramifications of becoming a hostile force sitting on top of oil that the US regards as its own.
Y’all qaeda about to find out
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Conceding to them about what?
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Well that sounds very bad. Giving the president emergency power to shut down the border? When does that expire? What conditions are required for it to be executed? Does it mean that Americans can’t leave or come home too? This doesn’t sound good at all to me. I really dislike that every administration rules through emergency and executive orders now, instead of legislating intelligent and long-term solutions.
Many immigration and border requirements are clearly spelled out in law. Laws the administration is enforcing as written. Like many other issues, Congressional Republicans have chosen not to update these at any point over the last couple decades, while also complaining about border issues, simply so they can blame any Democrat President.
This isn’t a new issue. It’s an issue the Republicans clearly plan. As soon as a Republican is in the White House the “imminent” border issues disappear, or the President enacts some over the top fascist solution that doesn’t actually do anything for the cause. And Congress then ignores the causes again so they can complain when the Democrats inevitably regain control and are stuck spending time fixing the fuck ups instead of handling the actual causes.
Yeah, that’s not caving, that’s DARING Congress to refuse to pass the bill.
See, they were going to pass a budget bill that has some border funding in it, and Mitch McConnell was telling the Republicans to pass the darned thing – but then Trump said it might be nice to use the border mess in his campaign, and Poof! McConnell spun around so fast, his heels were smoking! (no, not literally) Here’s a link: https://news.yahoo.com/trump-thrown-wrench-mitch-mcconnell-214452142.html
The statement from Biden is a double-dog dare to not pass the bill. Every time Republicans cry, “Waaahh! Border scary! Biden’s fault!”, Biden is going to hold up that statement and point out that he was ready, but they refused to sign it.
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If there’s two things you don’t get between, it’s a mama and her cub, and the US and oil.
There’s three things you don’t mess with.
US and oil.
US and their boats.
And the US and an excuse to pump more money into the military industrial complex that masquerades as our Economy.
You should also avoid bears in general.
You know that game 6 degrees of separation, where you find 6 people you and a stranger have in common? You can do the same thing with your job and MIC spending by the government.
As if the US needs an excuse!
The only bear I care to be around is the Teddy variety.
The amount of Texans who support seceding are an extreme minority.
Most of us think they’re just as dumb as you do.
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I don’t know what his limit break is to transform into Dark Brandon and start going full Homelander, but I hope it’s close.
Let us dream, dammit!
Ok sorry if this is a stupid question, but why not let them?
It seems like the biggest concern is a humanitarian one - that sane people who remain in Texas will be worse off - but it significantly improves that same problem for everyone else in the union. And a war would possibly be even worse for sane Texans. It would be cheaper to subsidize relocation costs.
I just don’t get why we’d fight to keep them, or pretty much any state these days. They don’t have slavery, and there’s nothing huge that we were right about to change.
The precedent it might set.
Also they breezed over the humanitarian reason, but well over 50% of Texas would never dream of seceding and would be worse off for it, it’s not like worrying about there being a few good eggs in the bunch.
Maintaining the union is important. Without solidifying that every state is in it together, the federal government loses it’s power, then states start to push the limits, not paying taxes here, disobeying federal law there.
If we wanted to let states secede, we would have formed a Confederacy, or not a country at all. As it stands now, the US government will always fight for a United States, as to not do so puts everything in jeopardy. Maybe you don’t think that’s the best action overall, but until the US government is reformed under a heavily modified constitution that probably won’t happen.
Ok sorry if this is a stupid question, but why not let them?
Because they would inevitably start a war again.
I mean, they’re already our enemies. Might as well fight 'em.
As a Native Texan leftist, please don’t devolve in to tribalism “them” includes a huge diversity of people who don’t agree with the insanity some fellow Texans spout.
This right here. Right-wing politics require oppression of an underclass or other. The first steps would be likely be to turn inward and mass murder and/or imprison/enslave dissidents and minorities. This is not sustainable, however, as there are only so many that can be oppressed in one place without hitting critical mass, and that’s not even getting into the economics or other factors.
So, like all other right-wing governments, they would be forced into expansionist/imperialist action. This would probably start with trying to annex a swath of Mexico, but could, if the politicians are the “true believer” type, rather than pragmatic sociopaths, it could well be the Midwest. In the first case, we likely end up with a new narco-state with oil fields in cartel hands, and a long, intractible insurgency. In the latter, the RoT gets curb-stomped by NATO and/or other coalition forces. Either way, lots of non-combatants suffer unnecessarily.
Because you lose some major shipping ports and oil refineries, and you’d have to share a border with a hostile neighbor.
Texas contributes more to the US economy than you’d think.
There would be significant economic disruption for all parties. People seem to think that’s no big deal, but it is.
Are you willing to lose your job because someone gets a hard-on when they see a picture of the Alamo? People that are brave on the internet will say that they’re fine with that, but in real life they don’t actually want that.
Legal Eagle did a video on this and brought up some interesting points I dont see very often.
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What happens to all the Federally-Owed land and military bases in Texas?
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What happens to Shared assets like the gold on Fort Knox?
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What happens with the National Debt?
Yes, if there were a hypothetical US military base, hypothetically called Fort Sumter, where there’s US military stationed in a state that hypothetically seceded, how would that play out, hypothetically speaking? :P
Assuming it was a peacefull succession. Negotiations etc. Really not to difficult to resolve.
Of course the reality is no one in power in Texas really wants to go independent. They want to use the threat to try and controll the federal government. And or They are just using there supporters to gain a foot hold on some power.
Well yeah, all issues can be resolved via negotiation. But the key is both parties have to negotiate in good faith. And many times secessionists want to have their cake and eat it too.
I’m Canadian and we’ve seen this kind of thing with both Quebec and Alberta. Alberta is basically Canada’s Texas (right wing, they got oil) and like Texas the secessionist tendencies aren’t all that serious.
With Quebec it’s a little more serious. But people still have weird ideas about what being a country means. We’ll still have Canadian passports, right? No you won’t. The federal government employs a lot of people in Quebec, those jobs aren’t going away, right? Uhhh… those jobs are leaving to go somewhere in Canada. Also there’s indication from the private sector from companies like Air Canada that they will be moving their head offices to somewhere in Canada. Oh, and by the way, Quebec is going to have take on a percentage of the national debt equal to the the percentage of Quebec’s population in Canada.
A lot of these things are just about emotion. I feel pride for Texas! I hate liberals! We should be our own country! But when you get down to the nuts and bolts of it, it takes all the fun out of it and it goes away.
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Already lost my job by being pushed out by racist hicks. At Intel no less.
My job security would improve tremendously if we fought a war to keep them, so I’m trying to keep that from biasing me.
It seems that you’re forgetting about Roe v. Wade.
I’m not. That’s one of the humanitarian issues the might worsen for the rest of the union if they stay.
The only other good reason to fight to keep them, is to prevent their government from going fully insane and doing horrible things. But that’s the sort of thing that would need intervention if and when it happens.
They partner with an enemy of the US who now gets a presence in mainland North America at the US’s doorstep making infiltration to the US, etc. even easier.
Russia has entered the chat
Fucks sake I need to move.
