Vegan diets are popular in third world countries because they’re considerably cheaper. Meat is cheap in western countries because it’s very often subsidized by governments. Meat consumption by wealth proves eating animals is a luxury.
Also veganism mantras always have “as far as is practicable”. I bought a Samsung phone because Fairphones don’t work here in Australia.
Oh dear I remember playing around with explosives as a kid, chlorine, break fluid, tin foil, that kinda thing. Then we started playing around with acetone and peroxide, trying to make a touch explosive. I count my blessings that we didn’t do it correctly, as I absolutely would have lost a hand. I don’t know how you can explain to some people the risks associated with this kinda stuff, the book we were using called the touch explosive “Mother of Satan”. If that didn’t dissuade us…
Damn, 2026. I hope you CAN wait.
Please Litter Tsar, add tagging to your death penalty list.
And there it is. “I don’t know why”, followed by an appeal to the majority (most people at one time believed slavery was ok, that doesn’t mean it was morally justified).
Your argument has come down to “I don’t know why, but it just is”.
I have said countless times why I believe eating animals is wrong. It is objectively wrong to cause something pain and death purely for taste pleasure.
If your argument has boiled down to “it is what it is”, then I suppose we can finish off this back and forth. It was a good chat, I enjoyed it! Thank you
So if I then ate the dog it would be okay? Why does eating it make it better? Because eating it is pleasurable? It’s not necessary for survival in the western world to eat meat, it’s just yummy.
Why - in my hypothetical - is your pleasure derived for eating the animals flesh, more significant than my pleasure from dog stomping?
You’re contributing to the needless subjugation and slaughter of sentient life, purely for ease and pleasure. That’s what’s nonsense.
I was in London last month, the city is amazingly quiet because of all the electric cars, buses, taxis etc. I read it’s like, 70% of all London City traffic is electric? It’s beautiful.
Okay, if you and I were sitting on a park bench together, and we saw a dog walk past, and I went off to go stomp the dog to death - would you think that was morally wrong of me? Would you try stop me?
You’re right. If farm animals were sedated before being killed, it would certainly be preferable, but wouldn’t make it right.
We have no right to cause pain, fear or death to sentient beings, purely for ~15 minutes or pleasure. Doing so is immoral. There is no valid argument against this. Trust me, I did NOT want to be a vegan. I argued against it for four years trying not to become one. But there was and is no argument against it. Eating meat is immoral, bad for the planet, bad for the animals, bad for modern medicine, and in a typical western diet, bad for your health.
I repeat, there is no argument against veganism, and being vegan is objectively he correct moral choice.
Sentience means “the capacity to have feelings”, and it is widely understood by the scientific community that the vast majority of the animal kingdom has sentience.
Do you believe cows can experience pain? Because we’re right up close against rejecting scientific consensus just to justify immoral actions. And that typically is frowned upon historically.
Subjecting something that feels pain to experience pain for your pleasure is immoral.
Okay, I believe it is morally reprehensible to kill a sentient being - one that feels fear and does not want to die, solely for pleasure. Eating meat is immoral and in a just world, would be punishable.
Right, so the only thing stopping you from factory farming and consuming humans is risk of prion disease and taste? By which it could be understood that if those two issues were solved - no risk of disease, and the flavour enhanced, you would happily factory farm humans.
And vegans are the weird ones? Your priorities are cooked buddy.
That would be response to stimuli, which doesn’t indicate sentience. Interesting though.
So… If there were no risk of disease, you would consider cannibalism and “normal meat eating” to be basically equitable, and equally justifiable? If not, why not?
Sorry I’m just having a hard time getting some solid admissions here, nobody wants to just straight up answer.
Well, it doesn’t cause prion diseases, it just spreads them. It’s only transmissible by consumption of conspecifics (or often, as in mad cow disease, by eating similar species - when farmers were feeding cows dead chickens and cows).
So you’re saying the only thing stopping you from eating factory farmed human meat is the risk to your own safety?
Oh we’re talking about eating humans now, we’re well past dogs as it seems like a fair few people here would be okay with factory farming them.
Personally, my ethics are simple and easily define - if it displays sentience, I won’t eat it. It’s unethical to kill and eat something that feels pain. I’m more interested in your more nebulous ethics, where some species are okay to eat, some not
It sounds like you’re okay with eating dogs, which id argue is demonstrably disgusting, but in your opinion, is it okay to rear, kill and then eat humans?
Right, but what’s inherently wrong with eating your own species? I mean, I know, I think any sentient life shouldn’t be killed for my pleasure. But with your logic that some species are okay to kill and eat, and others aren’t, I’m wanting to know why those others aren’t.
Ignoring “societal norms”, as they’ve been used to commit genocide, slavery, and all manner of atrocities - why is cannibalism logically, in your opinion, bad?
Cows are forcibly impregnated in perpetuity by humans, separated from their children and then had their milk taken so we can drink it. As soon as the cow can longer be impregnated and becomes unprofitable, it is killed for meat.
If a man sticks his fist in the vagina of a cow for fun, it is sexual animal abuse. If a man sticks his fist in the vagina of a cow, hoping to later kill and eat it’s flesh, it’s lunch.
I think a comparison is valid. Just because you are a willing participant and enabler in this animal sexual exploitation does not invalidate or soften the facts.
“Meat tastes good” as an argument for immoral actions is not valid logic. “Sex feels good” is not valid justification for sexual assault. “Men taste good” is not justification for Jeffrey Dahmer.
“Let’s eat less meat”. Again, there is no valid moral argument for “just a little bit of sexual assault”. “Only a wee bit of animal abuse”, “only occasional racism”. A moral wrong is a moral wrong. But hey at least it isn’t “I’d go vegan, but I just love cheese!”. Well then go vegan but eat cheese.
As for rural NY, I’d use Happycow.net to find places. I’ve eaten vegan in rural Bali, rural NZ, rural Australia, rural England, and never paid more than my meat eating counterparts. But if that’s still a concern, then eat vegan at home, meat when going out.
Although I’d still argue that “it’s more convenient for me commit sexual assault than to hire a sex worker” isn’t a valid justification.
Seriously if you get the option, read that book I recommended, even just the first chapter. I can buy you a copy of you like, DM me an email address and I’ll gift a copy. If you read it, I will genuinely send you PayPal money for a vegan dinner in rural NY. I’ve taken everyone else who read the book out to dinner, it’s only fair you get a free one!
I’m more privy to “_fireFox” when declaring my browser.