sigh
I just canceled my MDN Plus subscription. Man, Mozilla has been so disappointing recently. I have to wonder if Google infiltrated them or something.
It doesn’t really matter if they’ve been infiltrated, because they’re so dependent on Google’s cash. The money corrupts, even if there are no specific moles.
They are just really poorly managed
Sure, but it’s worth asking why the management is so poor. Many people have theorized that it’s because Google is pulling the strings; It would be in Google’s best interest to keep Firefox around on life support, because it helps them avoid antitrust lawsuits if they can point to Firefox and go “nope not every browser is Chromium based!” But it’s also in Google’s best interest to whittle Firefox’s usage down to near zero, which is what every single recent Mozilla decision has been aiming to do.
Mozilla was getting paid a lot of money by Google before Google got their hand slapped in an antitrust lawsuit. Many people have theorized that since that lawsuit, Google has pivoted to making deals directly with Mozilla’s management instead.
Ok wtf is Moxilla doing? They know their company is built on good community perception, right?
They honestly have a monopoly in the sense that they are the only think not Chrome
The users most likely to complain are also the users least likely to stop using their products.
I mean they’ve been pedaling AI crap for a while without negative backlash.
Similarly they tried to ride the Blockchain train back in the crypto scam days and also didn’t face any backlash.
They’ve publicly vouched to become an AI company and an advertising company without backlash.
I think most Firefox users don’t care
I think most Firefox users don’t care
Oh we care, but there’s no alternative besides Chrome and Safari and those companies are even worse (Google definitely is, anyway, Apple is debatable)
Luckily there’s still alternatives like Librewolf that unfortunately still use Mozilla’s browser engine.
I do hope the Servo project will be ready to use in a production browser soon.
Apple is definitely just as fucking terrible.
Compared to Google? Idk. Google doesn’t sell any products to the end user so that says a lot about who the customers are.
Apple sells products. Apple users ARE the customers.
No. Apple’s just getting paid from both sides.
Hard agree. Apple’s ecosystem is primarily completely closed-source. If you abandon them or they abandon you you’re left with nothing. At least with open source-based projects like Chrome/Firefox you can fork the code and not have to start from zero against a goliath. Apple would never give its customers that kind of leverage.
We are stuck with Firefox based browsers for a few years at the minimum as it takes a really long time to develop an engine.
Also Servo is very much not the only thing around. Ladybird exists as well
What they mean with AI features is also their offline website translation feature, which is something I’ve wanted for years. The alternative is online Google website translation.
I agree with you. It’s frustrating to see people lump in genuinely good AI/ML work like private on-device translations in attempts to discredit Mozilla. There are good criticisms against them. They’ve made mistakes. There’s zero need to lump in AI/ML.
Honestly a lot of Firefox users are eyeing forks
Yet another thing to add to my growing pile of reasons that Mozilla is enshittifying. I wonder what tomorrow’s reasons will be?
Slight sidetrack, I thought Mastodon was federated with Lemmy? Or is it just Boost that can’t handle Mastodon links?
You can read Lemmy threads in Mastodon clients (although it is messy and gross), but not vice versa. I couldn’t tell you the reason why.
It’s because the devs just don’t want to. Not really sure why, would be good to have that kind of interoperability.
Lemmy client devs? I have used quite a few Lemmy clients, and none of the ones I have tried (at least, the ones that have the best UIs IMO) support it.
For what it’s worth, Mastodon clients also seem to have either slick user interfaces or they are packed with features, but usually more of one equates with less of the other. It probably depends on which one the developers want to spend more time on. Since Mastodon (and the wider Fediverse) and Lemmy specifically are a bit different, it seems like Lemmy devs have opted to not handle the idiosyncrasies of something that is not Lemmy specific.
I am more and more satisfied with my decision to use Brave years ago despite all the haters.
That’s far. I just wish it wasn’t chrome
So brave.
If you’re using Brave as an ethical stance, HAHAHAHAHHAAHHA fuck me that’s a good one
I’m not usually one to do this sort of thing but you’re saying the browser created by a guy who got fired from Mozilla in 2014 for donating to orgs against gay marriage is more ethical to use than firefox?
I’m saying using the browser that aims to put privacy first is better than Firefox, yes. I don’t really care about the past personal beliefs of the staff because that doesn’t actually make any difference on the product itself, it’s just virtue signaling. I’ll keep using Brave which values my privacy, you can keep using whatever the hell other browser you want that doesn’t. Simple as that.
Well considering Brave secretly whitelisted Facebook trackers in the past without telling people I’d say they’re not really the best option when it comes to the whole valuing privacy thing. That’s not about personal beliefs it’s about them doing things that deliberately compromise users’ privacy.
Librewolf it is then.
One more voice to the pile-on:
You should never use something “despite the haters.” You should instead
- Listen to the haters’ points (should there be any)
- Synthesize the information into your understanding
- Identify any cognitive dissonance with your choice if it arises
- And if it does, choose to use the browser despite its flaws.
Case in point, I still use Mozilla’s Firefox despite its flaws.
Right so what browser should I use now??? 😡
Another org may fork popular software like Firefox, like OpenOffice vs libre office for example.
In the meantime we’re going full text interfaces by 2030 to save cycles for the env, https://man.archlinux.org/man/lynx.1.en /s
Teixeira worked for nearly 14 years at Microsoft in areas including developer tools and technologies, before serving as Facebook’s director of program management and design, and Twitter’s vice president of product.
According to the suit, Teixeira joined Mozilla in August 2022 with the understanding that he would ultimately be positioned to succeed Baker as Mozilla CEO.
[…]
Teixeira, 52, was diagnosed in October 2023 with ocular melanoma, a rare but treatable form of cancer. He took an approved 90-day medical leave through early February under the Family Medical Leave Act, the suit says.
Shortly before Teixeira returned, in early February, Baker stepped down as CEO, returning to the role of executive chairman. Chambers, a Mozilla board member, was named to serve as CEO for the remainder of the year.
So he’s basically fine, he just missed his chance to become CEO.
You missed this paragraph, which is curious.
After he returned, the suit says, Teixeira was asked to carry out and falsely take responsibility for a decision to make job cuts that were planned in his absence. He questioned the need for the layoffs and raised concerns about the potential to disproportionately impact women and people of color, the suit says.
Mozilla was trying to use him as a scapegoat, putting profits ahead of people.
I have met Steve at Ms several times, and he always seemed like a nice and genuinely motivated person. He seemed to like product challenges and even took on hard tasks like leading the core team of Windows 8.1 App enablement ( think of getting Facebook to create a Windows native app). I’d believe him that Mozilla treated him wrongly or asked unfair things of him, otherwise he wouldn’t need to take these steps.
In the post OP linked from Teixeira, he claims they terminated his employment.
It’s almost like they are intentionally trying to get in trouble.
I feel like the CEO of Mozilla is paid by Google to be as fucking stupid as possible.
I hope discovery finds something obvious to this effect, or we’re all going to have a bad time in the near future
Fucking stop with this conspiracy theory already, i’m reading it for the third time this thread. As if CEOs can’t make bad decisions and there has to be a “realll11” reason.
To be fair I believe being as fucking stupid as possible is a prerequisite of being a CEO of anything.
I dunno, a lot of CEO’s are probably laughing all the way to the bank.
Honestly. Even my most cynical assumption was that Mozilla would subtly pressure him to leave the company, making life harder for him in ways that wouldn’t be possible to legally prove.
I haven’t seen anything this egregious since Elon Musk fired Halli.
Stupid move posting about it publicly while the case is still open.
Yeah I don’t know how this is in other countries but over here that can seriously damage your case as the other party can claim your motivation is fame (and hence money), not justice. You generally never do this, and it’s one of the things lawyers are very serious and strict about.
No no, guys Mozilla are the good guys. They never did something nasty like bundling tons of spyware and 3rd party calls with Firefox nor adding unique IDs to every installation.
adding unique IDs to every installation.
I wasn’t familiar with that so I did a quick search. For anyone else interested here is some info about it:
- Each Firefox download has a unique identifier -ghacks, Mar. 2022
“Internet users who download the Firefox web browser from the official Mozilla website get a unique identifier attached to the installer that is submitted to Mozilla on install and first run.”
[…]
“Firefox users who prefer to download the browser without the unique identifier may do so in the following two ways:”
-
Download the Firefox installer from Mozilla’s HTTPS repository (formerly the FTP repository).
-
Download Firefox from third-party download sites that host the installer, e.g., from Softonic.
“The downloaded installers do not have the unique identifier, as they are identical whenever they are downloaded.”
In the comments section someone says:
“It seems that getting Firefox from GNU/Linux repos (Debian, etc.), doesn’t come with unique IDs.”
Must be for ad attribution and install tracking. Only something a major portion of their users are specifically trying to avoid when they’re choosing Firefox.
Yeah repositories and FTP don’t include that, but it is kind shady that the first way to get it (website) for the majority of regular users (Windows/macOS) has a unique ID - after all this is the company that goes all in for privacy…
Wtf happened in the last month? Everyone used to love and jerk off Mozilla and suddenly we hate them?
Nothing, not everyone liked it, the only difference is that my comment would result in a shit show of downvotes last week while not people are starting to realize what Mozilla/Firefox really is. Mozilla was never the “all savior” pained them to be and it only took Wireshark and a couple of minutes to see it.
Even if Mozilla/Firefox was at some point a healthy organization, the shear incredible disparity of power between Google and Mozilla/Firefox means that the probability that Mozilla/Firefox would remain a healthy, functional organization approaches zero over a long enough period of time.
This is a problem that needs legislative action to destroy Google’s incredible power and pseudo-monopoly control of search.
I am not saying Mozilla/Firefox isn’t toxic, but there a million ways that Mozilla/Firefox could end up a toxic entity and billions of dollars that are directly interested in that being the case so shrugs.
…but yeah I agree with you, Mozilla/Firefox definitely didnt turn into a shithole overnight, but until recently criticizing them has been very difficuly to do in a lot of circles.
bundling tons of spyware
I couldn’t find any info about this with a quick search. Do you have any links to where I can read more about this?
That is blatantly false. Don’t even waste your time.
I have this in user.js:
// settings user-test-programm user_pref("app.shield.optoutstudies.enabled", false); // dont use me as guinea pig user_pref("app.normandy.enabled", false); user_pref("app.normandy.optoutstudies.enabled", false); user_pref("messaging-system.rsexperimentloader.enabled", false); // side-loading of telemetry-extension user_pref("extensions.systemAddon.update.enabled", false); // disable Mozillas new tracking aggragation thingy user_pref("dom.private-attribution.submission.enabled", false,); // almost only for tracking useful user_pref("beacon.enabled", false); // so webpage can send (tracking) data before you close tab user_pref("browser.send_pings", false); // hyperlink auditing (click-tracking)Note: the last two are more nuanced.
Argument for beacon is that webpages will use a more intrusive way with noticeable delay to upload data on tab close. I personally prefer that, as a warning, but never saw one after years.
Argument for send_pings is, that trackers will use more mean and stealthier ways to track you, if they don’t have that interface (same as in private-attribution). I do know however, that companies who track you have high greed and low morale to begin with, and use all they can get to generate more money.
Just fire up Wireshark and inspect what Firefox calls, a lot of calling home and even if you change all the settings and config parameters to something sane it will still contact a 3rd party analytics company. Mozilla also acquired an ad analytics company recently for some reason.
If Mozilla really starts to go downhill, what are the chances we get a Linux kernel-style community fork that we can rely on instead? Curious why that hasn’t happened before – perhaps because Mozilla has always toed the line of not-quite-awful enough?
I just hope we can keep an alternative browser engine alive. Would be nice if some rich person would just set up a funding model that can pay a few devs to keep it going indefinitely without ads or spyware.
The biggest obstacle to people joining Linux is all the Linux stans who don’t shut up about it
It’s one thing to tweak a browser that comes in kit form from Mozilla’s code. It’s another thing altogether to continue maintaining it if Firefox ever dies. I don’t know if any of these clones have the kind of teams needed to do all the work Mozilla have done for them.
Librewolf is kind of like that. It pulls a lot from Tor
Funny enough
Though with a target of 2026…
Its also sadly maintained by transphobic weirdos
I was excited for it up until I saw what happened. I get the perspective the maintainer might be coming from, but they made a huge deal out of something that shouldn’t have been.
Don’t you like the Ladybird Browser and the browser based in Servo projects as alternatives?
They’re literally happening right now, not ready for prime time but with continued development and support they’ll become usuable
Servo is ridiculously behind Firefox
By that simple logic any new browser will be ridiculously behind Firefox. Firefox’s code base has been in development for nearly 30 years - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netscape_Navigator
Yes, and I seriously don’t expect Ladybird to get anywhere near being a complete browser like Firefox.
Even the idea of being a “web standards first” browser seems prone to failure, looking at how many websites these days “work best on Google Chrome”.
Firefox follows web standards pretty closely, and then some websites don’t work correctly because they don’t support a new Chrome feature not yet in a proper standard. How will this be different for Ladybird.
I’ll be positively surprised if Ladybird gets to a point where it works for all websites, just like I hope Firefox continues to do the same.
Check out AlternativeTo
I’ve been thinking of different browsers as well, but not sure which.
Def not Chrome or Safari though.
Because developing and maintaining an entire browser is a huge task. That’s why we don’t see much competition in browsers (I mean independent browsers). Also Mozilla isn’t doing that bad, the browser is still really good. It’s not the technical side that is a problem, its mostly marketing and the image of Mozilla.
I genuinely believe that the Mozilla board is secretly working for Google. They already get most of their funding from that search engine deal, is a backroom agreement to slowly run the organization into the ground in order to force the last holdouts over to Chrome that hard to believe?
I don’t think they’re working for Google but I’m convinced that they’re trying to setup their own advertising business
Trying to get some of that sweet ad revenue money
but Google controls so much of everything that of course they’re indirectly funded by Google, so it may look like they’re working for Google
In this Tecnofeudalist reality that we live in, we all indirectly work for our feudal lords Google / Meta / Amazon. We are granted their grace and allowed to exist in their server space and use their internet cables. In return we have to work the land and give our data as a tribute.
Don’t ascribe intention where incompetence is enough.
It’s better to treat incompetence as maliciousness, than to treat maliciousness as incompetence.
The benefit of the doubt should only apply in the absence of a longstanding pattern of behavior to the contrary.
IMO Mozilla has run out of goodwill.
IMO Alphabet has run out of goodwill by abusing their market dominance in a more overt way.
Looking forward to more aggressive action by FTC, note that tech donors have asked Harris for Lina Khan’s removal as a quid pro quo.
The key point is the courts only generally care about antitrust issues if they’re adversely affecting the consumer, and alphabet is starting to get into that territory.
It’s in Google’s interest to keep Firefox/Mozilla alive to skirt antitrust laws, so any backdoor deal would be more making Chrome alternatives not look too attractive while keeping them on life support.
Are they TRYING to speedrun losing their credibility?
Prolonged, multi-level fuckery with dozens of witnesses - and that’s just with what they did to this one guy.
Jesus isn’t rule number one of an employee suing you is to NOT FIRE THEM?
Seriously Monte Burns did this. Monte fucking burns. A cartoon villain
*Monte Carlo
Season 2 - Bart gets hit by a car. Bart gets hit by Mr Burns while skateboarding. Homer uses Lionel Hutz to sue his employer, Mr Burns for 1 million dollars. On receiving notice, Mr Burns tells Smithers to fire Homer. Smithers asks “Do you think that’s wise, sir? Think of the headlines”
It’s truly wild how hard of a heel turn mozilla has taken. I’m going to cancel my recurring donations to them, and get off all of their products.
holy shit you donated money to these wackos?
with so many OOS projects out there in need of funding, so many devs roughing it up, you donate to the advertising company Mozilla that has zero cash needs, they give million dollar bonuses to their executives every year.
Literally giving money to wacko rich executives
Haha hard to believe people are actually donating to Mozilla so that they can spend that money on political donations, exec salaries, and useless projects they kill shortly afterwards.
People are digging up a bunch of old shit right now
September 18, 2024 is “old shit”?
Well, it was already posted here, and i just saw an article from 2021 about something bad mozilla allegedly did
A few months ago, Steve Teixeira’s lawsuit became public knowledge, if that’s what you’re thinking of.
no, it was something else
It’s obviously orchestrated
Is Mozilla in on it too? Because they’re the ones who orchestrated laying off Steve Teixeira.
this week the chat has all been “Mozilla are going in the wrong direction , They’re selling out, they using AI, they’re hiring ad experts”. - all over xitter all over lemmy.
Now someone dug up this old story about teixeira Suing them, because he claims they demoted him because of cancer. A
With the scarcity of facts available at this stage , one thing we know is that both AI and advertising were championed by…. Texeira - ex of Microsoft, twitter and Facebook.
So, an alternate but equally plausible narrative, might be “Teixeira strayed to far into commercialisation, received a shitty performance review, and got moved out of his role”
Okay, your reply is kind of ironic because, in your defense of Mozilla, you’ve opened up new ways you find Mozilla to be bad. For example, "“Mozilla are going in the wrong direction , They’re selling out, they using AI, they’re hiring ad experts”
Either you believe Mozilla venturing into AI and ads are bad, or it’s good… but exposing it hurts Mozilla. Which?
Now someone dug up this old story about teixeira Suing them
Mozilla fired Teixeira a couple days ago. That’s not old.
both AI and advertising were championed by…. Texeira
I know you’re trying to get in a gotcha here, but according to Mozilla’s own testimony:
“[Teixeira] failed to adequately address the considerable concerns and feedback the Board and CEO raised regarding product strategy, including actively resisting requests that he engage in generative Artificial Intelligence (“GenAI”)”
Yeah especially if you look on reddit, it’s a handful of accounts with a very concerted effort.
Don’t get me wrong it’s shitty behaviour, but it’s also fairly obviously some are getting paid to suddenly do this.
Which accounts do you believe are
witchespaid shills?Shill accusations are fun, because they can’t be disproven, and their weight is informed solely by the social capital of the person making the accusations.
Why would you donate to a company? I assume you are talking about the non profit
Because they are a non profit which makes stuff one likes?
Firefox isn’t made by the non-profit. What do you like that the foundation does such that they’d deserve a donation over a shit ton of open-source projects that need funding?
