Behind the Nazis is what they learned from Trail of Tears and US antebellum slavery. Behind that, you get Rome.
It’s war. War is behind all fascism.
If everything is capitalism, then nothing is capitalism
According to your logic: If everything is the universe then nothing is the universe
And according to yours, capitalism is the universe?
Well universe = earth = humans = currency = capitalism
Capitalism is not currency, currency existed long before Capitalism.
The level of self centered thinking here is off the charts
currency = capitalism
u wot mate? If that was the case then we would always have had Capitalism, which we’ve obviously did not. You need a system that supports inserting capital into random companies to get to Capitalism, not (just) currency.
That’s not true, currency is an invention, it’s not as old as humanity. Primitive agrarian societies (and of course hunter-gatherer societies) broadly did not use currency.
humans = currency
??? Currency being capitalism is also wrong, but that’s just baffling
You get it
Everything isn’t capitalism, but fascism is always funded by the capitalist class. In fact it can’t get far without it. Fascism doesn’t just randomly sprout out of the ground; it’s not as organic & grassroots as most people think. Fascism is always a false revolution, because the capitalist class always remains in power. It’s what the capitalist class falls back on when liberal democracy starts to fail them. It’s when the capitalist class goes mask off. That’s what Lenin meant by “fascism is capitalism in decay.” Michael Parenti: Rational Fascism
How did January 6 happen? With a whole bunch of funding from rich motherfuckers.
- CNN: Man who organized buses for 200 people to travel to DC pleads guilty in US Capitol riot probe
- ProPublica: Texts Show Kimberly Guilfoyle Bragged About Raising Millions for Rally That Fueled Capitol Riot
- NPR: New clues emerge about the money that might have helped fund the Jan. 6 insurrection
.
The Nation: Trumpism: It’s Coming From the SuburbsBut scapegoating poor whites keeps the conversation away from fascism’s real base: the petite bourgeoisie. This is a piece of jargon used mostly by Marxists to denote small-property owners, whose nearest equivalents these days may be the “upper middle class” or “small-business owners.” […] Trump’s real base, the actual backbone of fascism, isn’t poor and working-class voters, but middle-class and affluent whites. Often self-employed, possessed of a retirement account and a home as a nest egg, this is the stratum taken in by Horatio Alger stories. They can envision playing the market well enough to become the next Trump. They haven’t won “big-league,” but they’ve won enough to be invested in the hierarchy they aspire to climb. If only America were made great again, they could become the haute bourgeoisie—the storied “1 percent.”
Bro really went out of his way here💀
You’re on Lemmy, most of the Communists here have trained in 1000x Earth’s gravity to fight Liberalism. You can’t exist as a Communist otherwise.
They’re not even saying everything is capitalism though.
In what I’ve observed from a certain demographic on here, there seems to be a theme
So you’re jumping to conclusions.
More like an educated guess
No, just finding one
First two are in the wrong order. Not just chronologically, but with regards to causation too: the Nazis were heavily influenced by American racists.
An argument could be made for the American traitor flag to be on both sides of the swastika, but that would be pretty messy…
A Stars & Stripes with 48 stars would probably be too subtle…
Hitler spoke about the American south and Jim Crow with reverence, he thought it should be a model for German racist policies.
This was something he wrote about in Mein Kampf.
Greater than just the South, the eugenics movement in the US in the early 20th century, with forced sterilizations and criminalizing interracial marriage, happened nationally.
Though you don’t need to be capitalist to be racist as fuck. Racism exists all over the world in many different government and economic systems throughout all of human history
Indeed, Chicago, until the 1960’s, was one of the most segregated cities in the USA. Irish, Italians, African Americans, Hispanics, etc…during daylight hours, everything was business, but during sunset, nobody crossed the ethnic and racial lines drawn up by the neighborhoods.
I am not sure, but I think Milton Friedman once revealed the depths of his ignorance about racial segregation in the US and that the claim that laws demanding all segregation be dismantled were a violation of the free market principle and that a true free market would dissolve segregation.
Chicago, as you mentioned, was used as an example to show just how dumb he was. Chicago had no official segregation policy. From a purely legal standpoint if an Irishman wanted to get an apartment in a black neighborhood and invite Italian friends over that would be a huge taboo and suffer reprecussions over it even if he wasn’t doing anything remotely illegal.
The only way it COULD have dismantled is to make law to strictly forbid that kind of discrimination on any grounds.
Australia heavily advertised multiculturalism and anti-racism during the '70s and '80s and then stopped. It seemed effective. We had one not very racist generation.
i mean not just the south, the west and midwest too where do u think he got all those ideas about contiguous “living space” and about exterminating the people who already live in the land u want to steel and about consecration camps and reservations that continuously move towards a frontier until the displaced people have nowhere to go, amerikkka from its very inception was the template for nazi germany.
I lived in the Midwest, it’s nothing like that.
That’s the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard.
The south literally fought a war (Texas fought 2) to preserve their practices of slavery and genocide.
The Midwest fought, killed, and died to stop them.
The post is about the genocide of Native Americans. Natives originally lived in the Midwest, and now they don’t.
Also, Indiana is the only state to be taken over by the KKK, and the North was racist in its own way.
They lived in the entire US, particularly the south, as did millions of slaves who suffered centuries of genocidal brutality and worse.
And as a non-white American , you are infinitely full of shit.
I’ve lived in most of the country, I have NEVER experienced such utter and brutal racism as in the vile, depraved south.
This is because after the civil war we let the slaver class live in the south, and they just took over as soon as our back was turned.
Worst decision in this country’s history, we would be so much greater of a nation if we’d simply dealt with the problem then instead of letting their filth fester and spread. Notice how Germany is a good country nowadays while the south is still as worthless as ever.
Indiana had racism, but comparing it to the south is like comparing a sneeze and ebola.
Notice how Germany is a good country nowadays
That really isn’t true, and it’s not true for the same reasons as you describe of the American South. There was relatively little denazification in West Germany, and the West German government eventually became the German government, so now we have a country where the supposedly liberal parties respond to the blatantly fascist AfD by adopting their policy positions.
It really is, except for East Germany, which got rid of their Nazi trash and replaced them with Soviet trash, which, just like Russia has, swerved them hard nazi again.
You’re incredibly uneducated to be making the claims you are.
Racism in the US south against black people looks different than racism in the midwest/Western states against Native Americans because the goals of the racism were different.
The govt wanted to grow the black population so they could have a huge workforce to take from. Explicit racism helps a lot with this, because it’s declaring people black and enforcing that they are less than and deserve to be a lower class. This is probably what you mean about how racist the south is.
For Native Americans, the govt’s goal is to take their land and destroy their claims to land - they want LESS Native Americans. That’s why colorblindness is the racism in the midwest and west. That is also why those areas HATE Latino people, even though those people are generally just Native Americans who speak Spanish. That’s why you hear stuff like “We speak English here.” That’s why old John Wayne movies were the way they were. That’s why we had those Native American re-education schools. That’s why we killed so mamy buffalo (to starve them) and the Great Plains to this day has never recovered fully from how many millions of herd animals were killed. It’s why, TO THIS DAY, Christian organizations will adopt Native kids to explicitly white Christian families. It’s why the Mormons are in Utah. It’s why most Native reservations are in extremely inhospitable places (look at the Navajo lands versus nearby in Hatch, NM - the Native people would have lived near Hatch, near water, but we took that from them and gave them barren soil - to kill them).
The racism against Native Americans is like smothering and starving a baby to death, whereas the racism in the south is more like screaming//beating at a baby to depression/“submission”.
Rec reading: Conquest: Sexual Violence and American Indian Genocide by Smith, Andrea
Old cowboys used to cut Native women’s labia off and put it on their saddle horns to play with. The west is racist too.
It’s valid to point that out, but I think that OP is talking about the modern usage of the Confederate flag, not the original use. At least, it becomes a much more coherent message that way.
Fuckingcapitalists
Solution to the problem: ban right-wingers, impose socialism and if rich people get too noisy send secret services to deal with them Pinochet-style. Bam, capitalism defeated in a few years.
Not that simple.
Nah, it is. Seize all their assets and if they complain, again, some Pinochet-style methods that will bend them to our knees.
Sorry, patience is over and right-wingers and their financiers must be dealt with the appropriate way.
Again, not that simple. Read The State and Revolution.
Sorry, tired of world going to shit and if we need someone that makes Stalin look like a kitten to fix it, so be it.
That will not fix it. You’re advocating for adventurism, not leftism.
adventurism
Adventurist leftism, maybe?
No, adventurism.
You and what army?
This is what I would do if I were in power.
P R A X I S
R
A
X
I
S
I’d do it differently.
I would fund a massive advertising campaign preaching equality, fairness, and cooperation
I would use the tax system to weaken the cycle of intergenerational wealth (the ultra wealthy spend borrowed money which is settled by their estate on death; I would tax bequests to banks; I would tax inheritances above a pretty high limit.
It would take time. The aim would be to have a much more level wealth distribution
Seize who’s assets exactly? The second you draw a line and say anyone on the other side has fewer rights than you, you’re falling right in line with those same right-wing policies.
There is no way to define a law against “right-wingers” that doesn’t infringe on basic rights like freedom of opinion and freedom from discrimination. You can’t punish people for being part of a group. You need to point to something specific that each individual has done that is illegal before prosecuting. Anything less and society will break down into fascism.
Seize who’s assets exactly?
Rich people’s
The second you draw a line and say anyone on the other side has fewer rights than you
Nah, just do it against rich people.
There is no way to define a law against “right-wingers” that doesn’t infringe on basic rights like freedom of opinion and freedom from discrimination. You can’t punish people for being part of a group. You need to point to something specific that each individual has done that is illegal before prosecuting. Anything less and society will break down into fascism.
Fuck this fake democracy then.
It needs another frame showing that feudalism never went away. Capitalism is just a way to walk us all back to feudalism.
Not really. Capitalism was born from feudalism, but is entirely different in character.
It is definitely leading us directly to a type of feudalism though. Where power is held by billionaires and corporations instead of local warlords.
that’s just capitalism, capitalism creates monopoly
Capitalism is changing, yes, but towards Monopoly Capitalism, aka Imperialism, not feudalism. Centralization of Capitalism isn’t the same as feudalism.
Outside of small city states, capitalism came from merchantislism.
Specifically, at the intersection where merchantislism and mass dispossession/theft of people’s land meet.
The only meaningful change is that the assets are now, mostly, intangible and you’re allowed to move to a different parish.
Some people still think billionaires are just like us. They aren’t. Their mentality is 100% different than the average person. Even basic things like their concept of money is extremely different and almost alien to ours. We think of money as the thing that we need to survive, the thing that keeps food on the table and a roof over our heads. Having a good deal of money for the average person is a source of comfort. It allows us to know we don’t have to go hungry and we can afford medical care when we are sick.
For billionaires money is an abstract concept. They operate on such massive sums every day that the idea that a few thousand dollars can make or break someone is inconceivable to them. When Elon Musk bought twitter he was originally kidding, but when the owners forced him to, raising the 44 billion dollars did nothing to harm him. In fact, his net worth increased greatly not too long after he shelled out amounts of money that would literally have ended world hunger several times over. Money is a source of leveraging power for them and they aren’t afraid to ‘lose’ a lot of it because they know they can get it all back with remarkable rapidity.
Borders also don’t exist to them. If Zuckerberg or Bezos wanted to go to India, or Zambia, or China, or Germany, or Finland, or the UAE, or wherever, they doesn’t have to concern themself with things like visas or residencies or whatever. They could go and set up shop wherever and not need to concern themselves with that.
They legit do think of themselves as being gods and are vastly superior to us. Their view of the poor being leeches on society while they are the providers when basically everything shows the opposite is not something they find contradictory. In their minds the population at large exists to serve them, not the other way around. This is why tech bro start ups that have created enclaves in some third world countries and they steal massive public resources for their projects all while imposing their own extra-legal or illegal restrictions on the poor is not seen as a problem because they really do view black and brown people as perpetual slaves that must be shown their place time and time again least they forget.
Stereotypical ml post
Not really, stereotypical would be having a liberal in the last frame
Is it wrong?
Yes
Which part?
IBM, IG Farben, Coca Cola, Hugo Boss, Volkswagen, Krupp, and many others were just doing regular business. And “privatization” definitely wasn’t something invented by the Nazis. Got it.
The term privatization was, however, coined to describe what the Nazis were doing during the 1930s.
Yes? What do you think I’m saying?
The order is wrong by like… A significant amount of time. Enough where this is clearly less effort.
OP implied Capitalism isn’t the economic base of fascism, the way I read it and were I’m responding to.
Unsurprising .world comment
Woo federation
machine learning?
Lemmy.ml is what they are talking about.
I thought it was machine learning to, but I am fairly sure it stands for Marxist Leninist.
So what would you tell people that say that Nazis stands for national socialism - there is a socialism even in the name of the party.
So where does capitalism comes from?
The Nazis built the first concentration camp at Dachau for priests and political prisoners. The political prisoners were mostly from the Socialist Party of Germany (SPD), communists and liberals. The fucking MAGATs are trying to twist history again.
To be clear, the SPD also killed the Communists, and the Liberals sided with the Nazis.
Some liberals sided with the Nazis, though many were rather ideologically confused by the whole thing. There certainly were many liberals sent to the camps, and any would-be German Voltaire would have been sent there pretty quickly if not just shot outright.
The naming of something decides the nature of the thing
Lol
So where does capitalism comes from?
Volkswagen, Siemens, IBM, Hugo Boss, and many others. Also socialists known to like privatization, not like the Nazis invented that, rightt?
I would ask these people who was in charge, the workers, or the large corporations, and by what mode of production were commodities produced.
The Nazis were not Socialist, they were similar to Social Democrats but far more Nationalist, racist, and Corporatist. They were Capitalism in its most Anticommunist and violent form, fascism.
I’m just saying that some ring wing characters online are saying this:
They can be entirely disregarded.
…The Jewish doctrine of Marxism rejects the aristocratic principle of Nature and replaces the eternal privilege of power and strength by the mass of numbers and their dead weight. Thus it denies the value of personality in man, contests the significance of nationality and race, and thereby withdraws from humanity the premise of its existence and its culture. As a foundation of the universe, this doctrine would bring about the end of any order intellectually conceivable to man. And as, in this greatest of all recognizable organisms, the result of an application of such a law could only be chaos, on earth it could only be destruction for the inhabitants of this planet.
If, with the help of his Marxist creed, the Jew is victorious over the other peoples of the world, his crown will be the funeral wreath of humanity and this planet will, as it did thousands of years ago, move through the ether devoid of men
– Hitler in Mein Kampf
‘Socialism is an ancient Aryan, Germanic institution. Our German ancestors held certain lands in common. They cultivated the idea of the common weal. Marxism has no right to disguise itself as socialism. Socialism, unlike Marxism, does not repudiate private property. Unlike Marxism, it involves no negation of personality and, unlike Marxism, it is patriotic.
Excerpt from an interview with Hitler. Note the part about “private property”.
Obviously he railed against Marxism all the time, but these were the most obvious quotes. He clearly did defend private property, and I’m not really sure that there was any collective farming like he describes of his “German ancestors”.
It seems I read once that “socialist” was just in the party name to garner support of those who would be supportive of socialist values. I can’t recall the publication, but wonder if that’s true?
Yeah, but that’s something that is harder to be succinctly convincing about to someone who is enough of a philistine to say “nazis were socialist” to begin with. That said, in the source I linked, the very next paragraph is:
‘We might have called ourselves the Liberal Party. We chose to call ourselves the National Socialists. We are not internationalists. Our Socialism is national. We demand the fulfilment of the just claims of the productive classes by the State on the basis of race solidarity. To us, State and race are one…
If it’s nearly as appropriate to call yourselves liberal as it is to call yourselves socialist, you probably aren’t much of either (and indeed, as much as I despise liberals, Hitler was not a liberal either).
Thanks. That’s a liberal (sorry, I couldn’t resist) definition of socialism he used there too, even allowing for the “national” qualifier.
Do you also believe that the Democratic Republic of North Korea is a democracy just because the name says so?
No, I believe it is a democracy after taking time to research how their government works, after spending years believing they were some weird dictatorship due to ambient western propaganda
Facsism is just capitalism when you try to say no.
Understandably, workers didn’t like capitalism. So, when they found out about socialism, many of them grouped up and tried to say no. After which, facsism was made to counter this.
So, I mean literally fascism is just capitalism when you try to say no. You only get mercan staal neo classical economics because you say yes.
How do you block all .ml posts?
Settings | Block instance 👋
Thank you
I love the way they evict themselves
An anarchist would take off the capitalist mask to reveal hierarchy
Wouldn’t the state also be in the frame before the capitalist at the end?
I’m an ML but no, states are more fundamental than capitalism. There were states prior to capitalism and they will likely exist after capitalism, but capitalism cannot exist without a state as the special apparatus of class oppression.
As an ML though you could argue that states are downstream of the economic circumstances that force their development
Yeah, you’re probably right
Capitalism is a hierarchy so true as well
Fascism is Capitalism’s immune system, activated when the wealth gap gets too large.
Activated when the people get’s too aware of the exploitation and begins fighting back
Maybe we shouldn’t be using an economic system whose immune system has historically lead to genocide, especially in an age where nukes are now a thing.
If it’s protecting capitalism, wouldn’t you mean when the wealth gap is too small? As in it is a driving force of the wealth gap?
No, as the Petite Bourgeoisie are proletarianized by the formation of Monopoly Capitalism, the Petite Bourgeoisie aligns with the Bourgeoisie against the Proletariat, who at the time gain class consciousness and are increasingly sympathetic to Socialism and Communism. Fascism is a defense mechanism against Communism.
“Fascism should rightly be called Corporatism, as it is the merger of corporate and government power.” - Benito Mussolini
I‘m not disagreeing with what you’re trying to convey but still: Mussolini very likely never said/wrote that, seems to have been misattributed. IF he did, the Italian word corporazioni, while technically translating to corporations, doesn’t refer to private companies, which in Italian are normally called società.
More info:
In simpler terms, it’s greed.
It’s systems built to reward the exploitation of the many by a few powerful individuals. It’s not a sin that is the issue, it’s the actual political-economic systems that are currently being maintained.
