I can’t seem to find that one comment explaining the issue with them…

But for the sake of promoting conversation on Lemmy, what’s the issue with Epic, and why should I go for Steam or GoG?

Note: Piracy is not an answer. I understand why, and do agree to a certain extent… But sometimes, the happiness gained by playing something from a legitimate source is far greater 🥹… coming from someone who could never ever afford to purchase games, nor could my parents… Hence I’ve always played bootleg, or pirated games.

  • Alto@kbin.social
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    11 months ago

    Valve is what happens when someone who’s not just outright fucking evil invents a money printing machine

    • MudMan@kbin.social
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      11 months ago

      Yeah, and somehow they managed to invent like 90% of all “evil” MTX and DRM in the process, take a bigger cut than competitors and actively reject having a returns policy until pushed by regulators and competitors, all the while being super not evil.

      It’s a fine line to walk, that.

        • MudMan@kbin.social
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          11 months ago

          Ah, so if it’s crackable it’s fine?

          Somebody tell Denuvo, they’re off the hook.

          Seriously, why try so hard to go to bat for a brand name? I get that everybody wants to root for something these days, but I’m too old to pick sides between Sega and Nintendo and I’m mature enough to reconcile that Steam can have the best feature set in a launcher and also be a major player in the process of erasing game ownership and the promotion of GaaS.

          • Alto@kbin.social
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            11 months ago

            Since I can almost guarantee you major publishers would not publish on steam without some sort of DRM, yeah Im fine with them having an easily crackable form of DRM. Especially since they’re not exactly jumping to prevent people from doing it.

            • MudMan@kbin.social
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              11 months ago

              Oh, they are not. Their DRM wiki page for devs goes “this DRM is easily crackable, we really recommend you use secondary DRM on top of it, see how to do that below”. I linked to that elsewhere.

              Which is… you know, fine, but definitely one of the reasons I always check if a game is on GOG first before buying it on Steam.

        • MudMan@kbin.social
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          11 months ago

          Hah. Fair enough.

          I mean, I’d say that’s probably true of most companies making videogames. People are really hyperbolic about this stuff.

          • Something Burger 🍔@jlai.lu
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            11 months ago

            Technically, Denuvo isn’t DRM, it’s anti-tamper. It protects the actual DRM from being modified or removed. It’s closer to an anticheat, as it ensures the game wasn’t modified.

            Fun fact: my autocorrect changes anticheat to Antichrist.

          • Zorque@kbin.social
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            11 months ago

            … right. And it’s also considered one of the premier “evil” DRMs.

            So I ask again… they invented Denuvo?

            • MudMan@kbin.social
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              11 months ago

              Oh, is that the bar? I hadn’t received the memo. That’s cool, then, because Activision, Epic, Microsoft and Ubisoft didn’t invent Denuvo either, so we’re all good.

              All their platfomrs support it and sell games with it, though.

              For the record, Steam actively suggests using multiple online features and multiple layers of DRM to minimize piracy:
              https://partner.steamgames.com/doc/features/drm

      • ono@lemmy.ca
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        11 months ago

        somehow they managed to invent like 90% of all “evil” MTX and DRM in the process

        Having worked with DRM systems since long before Valve existed, I’m reasonably certain this is just plain false.

        • MudMan@kbin.social
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          11 months ago

          Blending the storefront with a DRM solution? No, that was them.

          That’s their entire call to fame. They first turned their auto-patcher into a DRM service, then they enforced authorization of physical copies through it and eventually it became the storefront bundled with the other two pieces. If somebody did it before them I hadn’t heard of it, but I’ll happily take proof that I was wrong.

          None of the pieces were new, SecuROM and others had been around for years, a few publishers had download and patch managers and I don’t remember who did physical auth first, but somebody must have. But bundling the three? That was Steam.

          • Radical Dog@lemmy.world
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            11 months ago

            The user is being hyperbolic, but is referring to their substantial role in popularising loot boxes, as well as the marketplace that has spawned a real gambling industry around it. Kids gamble on 3rd party sites for marketplace prizes and Valve does very little to interfere.

      • Hajotay@kbin.social
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        11 months ago

        I mean, do you have any good examples though? Because most of those things are blatantly false and/or happened 9+ years ago. If that’s that’s the worst you’ve got then Valve is must be amazing.

        • Rikudou_Sage@lemmings.world
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          11 months ago

          They straight up don’t want people reselling games they own. They could do it easily, they just don’t want to.

          Yeah, Steam does cool things, but the moment you start thinking that very huge corporation somehow cares about you, you’re doomed. Companies don’t care about people, they care about numbers. Especially huge companies like Valve.

          • Hajotay@kbin.social
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            11 months ago

            I don’t know if many companies allow you to resell your digital goods in the first place (other than, funny enough, Valve themselves who let your resell digital Steam assets).

            • Something Burger 🍔@jlai.lu
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              11 months ago

              Valve’s DRM prevents the resale of physical PC games, as Steam codes are single-use. They singlehandedly killed the used PC games market.

        • MudMan@kbin.social
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          11 months ago

          See what I mean? That’s nuts. That’s a nuts sentence right there. Imagine having a brand so sticky that people go "but did they do something really bad recently?

          For the record, Valve’s games run loot boxes today. Like, right now you can buy loot boxes from Valve. CS gambling is also still happening, although I’m not into it enough to know how much better it is these days.

          They invented the battlepass, too, that’s a Dota 2 thing. Hey, remember how people refer to buying cosmetics for games as “buying hats”? That one’s from TF2. Oh, and technically the trading cards you get for purchases are NFTs, since the term doesn’t require the tokens to be stored in a blockchain.

          And then there’s the dev side. Everybody was super pissed with them on that end while they were figuring out greenlight processes, which… I’m not sure if they did or people just kinda got used to what’s there. And if you’re around devs you’ll know that Valve’s whole deal is to tell people what to do and give them zero support to do it. And there are other horror stories about shadowbans and Apple-style manual rejections and delistings and stuff, but at that point you’re getting more into inside baseball and I wouldn’t expect it to be shaping public perception at all.

          • Hajotay@kbin.social
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            11 months ago

            Well I’m not going to be eternally mad at Coca Cola because they put cocaine in their soda a century ago, there’s got to be a cut-off point somewhere. If I’m going to hate them it’s because of the things they are doing right now. Valve over the last eight years has been pretty well-behaved considering their market position gives them the capacity to be way worse. There’s nothing stopping them from

            • buying up exclusivity contracts

            • making a DRM that actually functions

            • developing only proprietary software

            • making their games pay-to-win

            • MudMan@kbin.social
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              11 months ago

              Oookay, so we’re all cool with MTX cosmetics, loot boxes, battlepasses and lacking full ownership or transferability of games, then?

              I’m just trying to figure out if the things Valve is doing right now are fine for everybody or just for Valve.

              Which again, is my problem. I’ll keep saying it, because having to argue for reality makes it sound like I’m a hater. I like Steam, I think Valve games are generally great (and it’s a shame they’ve stopped making them), and I think Valve’s management is a good example of many of the pros of a private company (look at Twitter for all the cons).

              But holy crap, no, man, they are THE premier name in GaaS. Everybody is taking their cues from Valve, Epic or both in that space. Their entire platform is predicated on doing as little as possible and crowdsourcing as much as possible to keep the money machine churning. Corporations are not your friends.