• Waluigis_Talking_Buttplug@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    0
    ·
    edit-2
    1 year ago

    Why is this shit always communist vs capitalist, like we’ve only got 2 answers avaliable. You fuckers never set foot in a communist country and worship this shit

    Fucking communist countries have killed how many millions of their own citizens? Don’t really think showing a picture of some buildings is enough to prove that they actually solved any issues. They may have solved those issues for some who were lucky enough to get an apartment, but don’t be a hexbear and pretend they housed everyone.

    And no, I don’t want a response with a link about hurr duer capitalism bad, yeah I know, but I live in capitalism so I already know that.

    • Immersive_Matthew@sh.itjust.works
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      0
      ·
      1 year ago

      Right. Communism vs capitalism is just more centralization. There are plenty of decentralized options to balance things as too much centralization, no matter the political system leads to corruption.

    • Katana314@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      0
      ·
      1 year ago

      I’m still confused and alarmed that the only alternative brought up is communism, not socialism. So far as I know, the core difference is transfer of power - one is peaceful, one is violent.

      So in communism, your home might be six feet underground because “It is necessary to achieve the revolution, comrade.” Absolutely zero chance of a leader that wants the best for their people, apparently.

      • huge_clock@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        0
        ·
        1 year ago

        You’re also taking a snapshot of the most regulated industry in the US. Building high rises is illegal in huge swaths of urban areas. Before we say the free market isn’t providing an answer cab we actually try it? I’m talking removing exclusionary zoning, speeding up the permit process and reducing the power of local action committees, and reforming the broken heritage process that’s used by rich people to keep their areas from densifying.

      • Grayox@lemmy.mlOP
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        0
        ·
        edit-2
        1 year ago

        Real socialism leads to communism. I want to call what I am advocating for as cultural marxism, but unfortunately that term has antisemitic connotations, while also perfectly encapsulating the gradual shift in the publics perception of Marxist ideology I am advocating for with memes such as this. I am not advocating for a violent revolution, but I wont deny the fact that when the powers that be make a peaceful revolution impossible, a violent revolution is inevitable.

      • Cowbee@lemm.ee
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        0
        ·
        1 year ago

        That’s incorrect.

        Socialism is Worker Ownership of the Means of Production. There sre many, many forms, such as Anarcho-Syndicalism, Marxism-Leninism, Democratic Socialism, Market Socialism, Libertarian Socialism, Anarcho-Communism, Council Communism, Left Communism, and more.

        Communism is a more specific form of Socialism, by which you have achieved a Stateless, Classless, moneyless society. Many Communist ideologies are transitional towards Communism, such as the USSR’s Marxism-Leninism or China’s Dengism and Maoism.

        Whether by reform or Revolution, the form doesn’t change.

      • EchoCT@lemmy.ml
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        0
        ·
        edit-2
        1 year ago

        Except there isn’t. we tried that then the capitalists bought the weaker willed politicians and used them to undermine any regulation. Capitalism is a cancer and must be excised as such.

        • Kushan@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          0
          ·
          1 year ago

          I don’t disagree that Capitalism doesn’t work in its purest form, but we’ve hardly had a success with communism in its purest form either.

    • OsrsNeedsF2P@lemmy.ml
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      0
      ·
      edit-2
      1 year ago

      Remind me, how many capitalist countries have killed millions of their own citizens?

      Germany, pre-communist China, Japan, Armenia, pre-USSR Russia, Pakistan…

      Edit: if apparently this isn’t the point, why so passionately call out the communist killcount?

      • Waluigis_Talking_Buttplug@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        0
        ·
        1 year ago

        See, this is what the fuck I’m talking about.

        You’re so dense. I’m not advocating or simping got capitalism here. That’s what I’m trying to communicate, but you’re too fucking dense to even see that when I lay it out.

        Both are bad. Just because I say these turds who worship an imaginary and propagandized version of communism are dorks doesn’t mean I’m arguing in favor of capitalism. For fucks sake learn to read

        • TheOneAndOnly@lemm.ee
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          0
          ·
          1 year ago

          You are 100% correct in your assertion, my anti Mario sex toy friend, and I love your passion. I worry that the minute you call someone’s intelligence into question, they’ll take a defensive posture and stop thinking critically. Critical thinking is what we need more than anything else in this world right now. That’s what’s in short supply. It’s why the news is constantly being flooded with new things, and why there are so few media outlets that don’t have a slant. If I can get you outraged at team blue, or team red, or team US, or team THEM, your anger overrides your reason and you stop thinking about who benefits from the distraction provided by us arguing over whatever this new bullshit thing is we’re arguing over. Hopefully that last statement makes sense.

    • Unaware7013@kbin.social
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      0
      ·
      1 year ago

      Fucking communist countries have killed how many millions of their own citizens?

      Bruh, centuries of capitalist exploitation of its citizens and treating them like a disposable commodity would like to have a word on the whole ‘citizens killed by their own country’ topic.

      How many thousands or millions of citizens die yearly because they can’t afford to live in this fucked up system?

      • WhiteHawk@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        0
        ·
        1 year ago

        None? People don’t starve to death in western countries. And where they do the issue is lack of infrastructure. A communist government couldn’t conjure the resources needed to build that out of thin air either.

        • Unaware7013@kbin.social
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          0
          ·
          1 year ago

          None? People don’t starve to death in western countries. And where they do the issue is lack of infrastructure.

          “This thing doesn’t happen, and when it does, it’s not the fault of capitalism itself” is a monumentally stupid argument. Especially when talking about the homeless population, which absolutely does have people that starve.

          A communist government couldn’t conjure the resources needed to build that out of thin air either.

          And the capitalist economy chose not to build it because it wasn’t profitable, or after it was built, it was too expensive to be used.

          • Smk@lemmy.ca
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            0
            ·
            1 year ago

            Where is your great communist country ?? Oh wait, it’s not there. It doesn’t exist and it never will. Capitalism works. Not perfect but it works. Your idealized version of communism is great but so is my idealized version of capitalism where everyone has a shot at the American dream!

          • WhiteHawk@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            0
            ·
            1 year ago

            I said it doesn’t happen in the west, not that it doesn’t happen anywhere. Please learn to read.

            • Perfide@reddthat.com
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              0
              ·
              1 year ago

              Bullshit it doesn’t happen in the west. 12.8% of US households were considered food insecure in 2022, with 5.1% of that being considered to have VERY low food security(Source). Over 20,000 Americans died of malnutrition in 2022, more than double the number in 2018(Source).

              There’s also nearly 30 vacant homes for every 1 homeless person in the US, so there’s plenty of room, too. Nobody needs a 2nd home when over half a million people don’t even have one.

              • WhiteHawk@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                0
                ·
                edit-2
                1 year ago

                Maybe you should have actually read that article before linking it. It discusses in detail the reasons for malnutrition being an issue, and none of those reasons is being unable to afford food. The problems are typically due to age and diseases.

                • intensely_human@lemm.ee
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  0
                  ·
                  1 year ago

                  I’ve been unable to afford food before, and I didn’t go hungry. People just gave me tons of free food.

    • TheOneAndOnly@lemm.ee
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      0
      ·
      1 year ago

      It’s simple… If you convince the communists that the capitalists are trying to destroy them, (and vice versa), they fight each other, distracting them from the real enemy: the 1% with enough money to directly influence the folk that make the rules that keep them in the 1% club. We’re fighting culture wars so we won’t fight class wars, my friend.

          • irmoz@reddthat.com
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            0
            ·
            1 year ago

            What ideology is it, again, that champions working class people to take their power back? It’s certainly not right wing.

            If you think the world is fucked because of the greed of the 1%, and you want those people to pay for their crimes through class war, you’re communist.

            • intensely_human@lemm.ee
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              0
              ·
              1 year ago

              What ideology is it, again, that champions working class people to take their power back?

              That sounds like a free market to me. When people have the power to determine their own fate, and how they engage with others for economic coordination.

              When everyone has the ability to choose how they engage, that’s called a free market. The economic system based on free markets is called capitalism.

      • darq@kbin.social
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        0
        ·
        1 year ago

        … capitalism is the ideology that lets the 1% be the 1%.

        This is like the one fight that isn’t part of the culture war.

        • TheOneAndOnly@lemm.ee
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          0
          ·
          1 year ago

          The 1% exist in every form of government, my friend. Billionaire capitalists == Russian Oligarchs. The name changes based on the audience, but the idea is money influences politics. The folk with the most money to do so are the 1% who actually rule, not the interchangeable talking heads who take their money to live a comfortable life acting as the mouthpiece (or scapegoat) for that group.

          • Cowbee@lemm.ee
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            0
            ·
            1 year ago

            …do you think Russia is still Socialist? The Russian oligarchs are Billionaire Capitalists.

            The USSR collapsed in the 90s, buddy.

      • Grayox@lemmy.mlOP
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        0
        ·
        edit-2
        1 year ago

        The 1% are the Capitalist and they are trying to defeat the Communists and surpress/continue to exploit the Prolitariat with every tool at their vast disposal. The folks in the comments defending Capitalism are all members of the Prolitariat brainwashed into thinking they are down on their luck Millionaires.

        • TheOneAndOnly@lemm.ee
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          0
          ·
          1 year ago

          Look… It’s all tribalism, in the end. We can argue semantics, but doing so it’s exactly their point. It keeps us busy with pedantry, while they continue to enjoy their wealth from on high. I am not educated enough to debate the pros and cons of each group, but I am intelligent enough to smell an attempt to distract me from the point. To know there’s some sleight of hand fuckery happening right in front of my face.

          • Grayox@lemmy.mlOP
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            0
            ·
            1 year ago

            Yes you are intelligent, and so close to getting it, the cultural warfare bullshit is all a distraction to keep you from noticing the class warfare being waged against the working class by the 1% who continues to rob value from us to horde weath far beyond our comprehension. I cant recommend Marx’s writings enough, there is so much slight of hand fuxkery going on and it SHOULD rightfully piss you off!

            • TheOneAndOnly@lemm.ee
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              0
              ·
              1 year ago

              Help me understand how I’m close in what I’m saying, my friend. It feels like we’re saying exactly the same thing.

    • mycorrhiza they/them@lemmy.ml
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      0
      ·
      edit-2
      1 year ago

      fucking communist countries have killed how many millions of their own citizens

      Most of these articles cite the Black Book of Communism, which goes to absurd lengths to inflate the death toll of Communism, for example counting all the millions of nazi and soviet soldiers killed on the eastern front as victims of communism, counting the entire death toll of the Vietnam war, and even counting declining birth rates as deaths due to communism.

      Noam Chomsky used the same methodology to argue that, according to Black Book logic, capitalism in India alone, from 1947–1979, could be blamed for more deaths than communism worldwide from 1917–1979.

      https://web.archive.org/web/20160921084037/http://www.spectrezine.org/global/chomsky.htm