Lemmygrad and Hexbear most definitely do not tolerate homophobia, though, so I don’t think that user would’ve lasted long there if they were a lemmygrad user.
I think this highlights what people think when they hear “defederating” vs its actual purpose. It’s controversial when it’s between serious instances that people actually use but with wildly incompatible opinions, but there’s very few objections when it’s blocking CSAM!
Okay, yeah this was my thought as I wrote this, I won’t deny it. But to be fair, LemmyGrad does more than just to be controversial. They provoke and brigade and justify terrible Crimes against Humanity. And I might bet that some of the Stuff they say could even be illegal here in Germany.
I imagine most of the big servers have them blocked but it’s probably the individual servers that make up the majority of the numbers. If you’re self-hosting then you can just ignore instances you don’t like and be relatively confident they won’t hassle you. The other kind though, probably want to preempt them!
I see your Point. I see myself also as rather left. But the People over at Lemmygrad are not really left imo.
They are authoritarian, for sure. But left? I don’t know. I don’t want to claim to be the sole “Incarnation of leftism” it’s just that many of my views and beliefs are the opposite of theirs.
The spectrum is more than left and right, I know political compass memes on Reddit got taken over by nazis but there is legitimately a whole compass. Stalin is somewhat center left, nudist hippie communes are lower left corner
Being vehemently against racism and fascism is left. It’s the logical extreme opposite of “a certain group of people are superior to everyone else”: “everyone is equal and their basic necessities should be provided for free”
You just seem to disagree with the folks over on grad and Lemmy devs on how that can be achieved, and maybe to what extent it should be. They believe an authority is necessary to enforce those rules, or you get corporations and billionaires steering the government to wage wars for profit from oil, materials etc. like what’s happening now.
Personally, I see being pro-China like they are on grad as much less worrying than being pro-US, the latter of which I have a feeling .world mods wouldn’t block because of their inherent western bias. Only one of the two have constantly invaded other countries for their resources, or overthrown democratically elected foreign governments to replace them with military dictatorships.
I literally have a hexbear account. People scream that the tankies love putin and that couldn’t be further from the truth. USSR? Yes but they shit on modern day Russia a lot
I would tell you to go to hell for being on hexbear, but apparently you haven’t been on there enough to see how pro-russia and pro-Putin tankies tend to be
Only one of the two have constantly invaded other countries
The People of Tibet might disagree there. But this is a discussion for another Time.
I’m not pro US either, tho. I just call out evil when I see it. And that’s my Problem with Lemygrad. They seem to believe there are only two sides. I can say America does bad things and China, Russia etc. does bad things. They pick one side and argue and justify away the crimes “their” Side has done. And that’s not how we come forward. Evil is Evil is Evil. No matter who does it.
They pick one side and argue and justify away the crimes “their” Side has done
That’s a heavy oversimplification of everything on there… I see the folks on grad being mad about bad decisions by China just the same; they just heavily scrutinize negative news for bias or misinfo, as people should do for everything.
If you do scrutinize your news and sources, I think it’s only natural that you’d end up being very anti-west/imperialism, and far less anti-China, specially considering the grip western media and news have on the world. The two are just not equivalent at all.
The People of Tibet might disagree there
Here’s an example of that. The fact that China’s education system makes sure ~90% of Tibetans can speak their cultural language compared to the ~8% of North Americans that can speak theirs means they’re just not equivalent. The only countries accusing China of such a fucked up crime like cultural repression are western ones with a political/economic interest for doing so. Muslim countries and the global south side with China on this and Xinjiang.
You don’t get it.
I don’t compare. It is not that is worse than that.
China attacked Tibet and conquered their Land. I don’t need to compare this to the US. I don’t care if Country XYZ says it was good. Evil is Evil is Evil.
Pull yourself away from comparing. You don’t have to weigh Evil against each other.
EDIT:
They pick one side and argue and justify away the crimes “their” Side has done.
You are doing exactly that. You try to argue and justify the annexation of Tibet. You could easily say “Yeah, that was not okay. China invaded and occupied Tibet, this is not okay.” But instead you are trying to compare this to the US and bring up other Countries and what they think. THIS is exactly what I meant.
you are trying to compare this to the US and bring up other Countries and what they think
Shouldn’t we look at different sources and scrutinize events and claims thoroughly? You seem to be thinking you’re being objective by taking a centrist position on these but this
China invaded and occupied Tibet
is a western claim, and exactly what the US and EU wants its citizens to think by drawing a false equivalence between them and their geopolitical rival. Tibet had a popular revolutionary party whose views were in line with the rest of China that wanted China’s help overthrowing the Dalai Lama, under whom slavery and serfdom was common in the region. There absolutely were factions supporting the prior feudal rule, but chalking that up to “China invaded and occupied Tibet” is absurd and extremely misleading. Tibet is an autonomous region now.
Hell, the Tibetan uprising against the Chinese government later on was organized by the CIA, and the US is open about it and even proud of it now. Here’s a book on that written by a US district judge and a journal by a professor on Tibetan studies. It’s similar to how the US overthrew the democratically elected Mosaddegh in Iran because his policies would benefit Iran instead of the US.
So are you saying that China didn’t abduct a child in an attempt to exterminate Tibetan culture? Surely there is no way to defend such things and this should be a very easy thing to condemn?
Tibet had a popular revolutionary party whose views were in line with the rest of China that wanted China’s help overthrowing the Dalai Lama, under whom slavery and serfdom was common in the region.
Yes Tibet was a theocratic slave state. But China still invaded and annexed them.
Was the US invasion of Iraq justified because Saddam was a dictator? If we annexed Iraq and didn’t make them speak English it would be fine?
Again you feel the need to bring up the US. This is all you got, isn’t it? “Hey, Hey, don’t call out my Camp, look at the US. They are bad!”.
You honestly believe everyone lies?
Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, International Campaign for Tibet, Tibetan Centre for Human Rights and Democracy, the UN. All lie?
But China tells the truth. You are so far gone it’s unbelievable. You question well documented facts, but you won’t believe that a regime that is notorious for lying won’t lie? You are waaaay too far gone that I, a random Person from the Internet, could ever convince you. I’m just going to block you, you are not worth arguing with any further. You have nothing of value to say I couldn’t read in a Chinese propaganda pamphlet.
Amazing, it only took you 2 comments to land right on genocide denial, unprovoked.
You’re a tankie, defending other tankies, and tankies aren’t communists, nor are you on the left, since you clearly aren’t in support of freedom and equality for all, never mind the rest of it, just more of the same bullshit - authoritarians co opting leftist ideas and language to grab power. Tale as old as fucking time…
Jesus christ, you don’t seem to realize how much of a fucked up accusation that is to throw around. Even the US State Department, who would love to claim any and all accusations against their geopolitical rivals, says there’s no mass killings in China, probably because the US couldn’t cause one like they did in 1965 in Indonesia.
Even if it’s not intentional, these kinds of thoughtless claims downplay actual mass killings like the one Israel is perpetrating against native Palestinians right now.
far-rights co opting leftist language to grab power
Hence why it’s important to scrutinize news, sources and claims, and not throw around baseless ones.
I do think we need a democratically elected authority though, or you get corporations and billionaires steering the government to wage wars for their own selfish profit from oil, materials etc. like what’s happening now with Israel. And rising inequality as wealth gathers at the top.
There is, for better or worse, authoritarianism on the left. “You will be fed and given a place to stay and personal safety… or else!” Even in its more benign forms (ex Bolshevism) it’s kinda bad imo. When it gets extreme it gets… well… being an English speaker i’m sure you’ve heard all about it.
Places like Lemmygrad and Hexbear are actually pretty benign. They’re just on the verge of being acceptable to people so they make a lot of noise and cause a lot of drama but in terms of the actual bad actors… well, as you can see, they don’t even rate.
I guess it’s slightly better that they’re mostly honest deniers instead of “they had it coming” types.
I think. I personally find it refreshing in small doses to deal with people that actually know what the fuck they’re talking about in terms of political theory, some of the shit .world users will say is…
My experience with hexbear has been pretty fucking far from them knowing political theory, outside of one very specific niche they can kind of articulate as long as you don’t ask them to reduce any of it to fundamentals or first principles.
As far as I can tell, their one trick is quoting books they haven’t actually read, assuming nobody else has read them either. I’ve literally had this same interaction three or four times at this point, over books which don’t say the things they think they say. Like multiple people arguing that some Chomsky work supports their orthodox ML theory.
You can literally get them to argue against the works they are trying cite by quoting them. It’s amusing for a bit, but then it’s just sad.
Hexbear and Lemmygrad are different instances, but tbh at this point I’m just happy with people that can at least vaguely define liberalism and socialism, and I don’t have to see the great minds upvote “communism is right wing, AKSHUALLY, because right wing means authoritarian.”
Edit: ah wait, your comment was under one about both, I conflated it with the other chain about Lemmygrad specifically.
Agreed. While I tend to disagree with most of the viewpoints coming from lemmygrad, at least the content is posted with benign intent. The room might stink, but nobody intentionally shat on the floor.
Huh. I would have bet Lemmygrad would be up there somewehre.
I think lemmygrad isn’t that bad considering pedo.school is halfway through the list.
True, but LemmyGrad can be wild too. I met one who claimed being Homosexual is imperialistic. https://lemmy.world/post/4494303
Lemmygrad and Hexbear most definitely do not tolerate homophobia, though, so I don’t think that user would’ve lasted long there if they were a lemmygrad user.
Isn’t that a .world user? Lemmygrad doesn’t allow homophobes as a rule. Probably why they couldn’t register on that instance.
Being gay and imperialist is a hilarious thought though lol
When you are a queen but want to be THE Queen.
Ah yes the urge to kiss boys and conquer territory
I think this highlights what people think when they hear “defederating” vs its actual purpose. It’s controversial when it’s between serious instances that people actually use but with wildly incompatible opinions, but there’s very few objections when it’s blocking CSAM!
I’d imaging its fur and anime, not CSAM.
Judging from some of the other comments in this thread I’m not so sure
Fur, anime, and CSAM groups have a not so insignificant overlap of members sometimes, sadly.
Okay, yeah this was my thought as I wrote this, I won’t deny it. But to be fair, LemmyGrad does more than just to be controversial. They provoke and brigade and justify terrible Crimes against Humanity. And I might bet that some of the Stuff they say could even be illegal here in Germany.
I imagine most of the big servers have them blocked but it’s probably the individual servers that make up the majority of the numbers. If you’re self-hosting then you can just ignore instances you don’t like and be relatively confident they won’t hassle you. The other kind though, probably want to preempt them!
I bet a large part of the Fediverse are Communist/Socialist too, or have similar ideas. Lemmy’s devs are, after all.
I mean, the whole thing is based on the idea of being free to use for everyone.
I see your Point. I see myself also as rather left. But the People over at Lemmygrad are not really left imo. They are authoritarian, for sure. But left? I don’t know. I don’t want to claim to be the sole “Incarnation of leftism” it’s just that many of my views and beliefs are the opposite of theirs.
The spectrum is more than left and right, I know political compass memes on Reddit got taken over by nazis but there is legitimately a whole compass. Stalin is somewhat center left, nudist hippie communes are lower left corner
Being vehemently against racism and fascism is left. It’s the logical extreme opposite of “a certain group of people are superior to everyone else”: “everyone is equal and their basic necessities should be provided for free”
You just seem to disagree with the folks over on grad and Lemmy devs on how that can be achieved, and maybe to what extent it should be. They believe an authority is necessary to enforce those rules, or you get corporations and billionaires steering the government to wage wars for profit from oil, materials etc. like what’s happening now.
Personally, I see being pro-China like they are on grad as much less worrying than being pro-US, the latter of which I have a feeling .world mods wouldn’t block because of their inherent western bias. Only one of the two have constantly invaded other countries for their resources, or overthrown democratically elected foreign governments to replace them with military dictatorships.
I would say pro Putin people can’t be called leftists they are nazis in red.
I don’t think they’re pro-Putin? Seem to be as much against Russian imperialism and capitalism as they are against US’s.
Edit: Lmao one of the first comments I saw on there:
So yeah, not very “pro-Putin”
“I found literally one comment that doesn’t support Putin so clearly the tankie instance doesn’t support him!”
I literally have a hexbear account. People scream that the tankies love putin and that couldn’t be further from the truth. USSR? Yes but they shit on modern day Russia a lot
I would tell you to go to hell for being on hexbear, but apparently you haven’t been on there enough to see how pro-russia and pro-Putin tankies tend to be
The People of Tibet might disagree there. But this is a discussion for another Time.
I’m not pro US either, tho. I just call out evil when I see it. And that’s my Problem with Lemygrad. They seem to believe there are only two sides. I can say America does bad things and China, Russia etc. does bad things. They pick one side and argue and justify away the crimes “their” Side has done. And that’s not how we come forward. Evil is Evil is Evil. No matter who does it.
That’s a heavy oversimplification of everything on there… I see the folks on grad being mad about bad decisions by China just the same; they just heavily scrutinize negative news for bias or misinfo, as people should do for everything.
If you do scrutinize your news and sources, I think it’s only natural that you’d end up being very anti-west/imperialism, and far less anti-China, specially considering the grip western media and news have on the world. The two are just not equivalent at all.
Here’s an example of that. The fact that China’s education system makes sure ~90% of Tibetans can speak their cultural language compared to the ~8% of North Americans that can speak theirs means they’re just not equivalent. The only countries accusing China of such a fucked up crime like cultural repression are western ones with a political/economic interest for doing so. Muslim countries and the global south side with China on this and Xinjiang.
You don’t get it. I don’t compare. It is not that is worse than that. China attacked Tibet and conquered their Land. I don’t need to compare this to the US. I don’t care if Country XYZ says it was good. Evil is Evil is Evil. Pull yourself away from comparing. You don’t have to weigh Evil against each other.
EDIT:
You are doing exactly that. You try to argue and justify the annexation of Tibet. You could easily say “Yeah, that was not okay. China invaded and occupied Tibet, this is not okay.” But instead you are trying to compare this to the US and bring up other Countries and what they think. THIS is exactly what I meant.
Shouldn’t we look at different sources and scrutinize events and claims thoroughly? You seem to be thinking you’re being objective by taking a centrist position on these but this
is a western claim, and exactly what the US and EU wants its citizens to think by drawing a false equivalence between them and their geopolitical rival. Tibet had a popular revolutionary party whose views were in line with the rest of China that wanted China’s help overthrowing the Dalai Lama, under whom slavery and serfdom was common in the region. There absolutely were factions supporting the prior feudal rule, but chalking that up to “China invaded and occupied Tibet” is absurd and extremely misleading. Tibet is an autonomous region now.
Hell, the Tibetan uprising against the Chinese government later on was organized by the CIA, and the US is open about it and even proud of it now. Here’s a book on that written by a US district judge and a journal by a professor on Tibetan studies. It’s similar to how the US overthrew the democratically elected Mosaddegh in Iran because his policies would benefit Iran instead of the US.
So are you saying that China didn’t abduct a child in an attempt to exterminate Tibetan culture? Surely there is no way to defend such things and this should be a very easy thing to condemn?
Yes Tibet was a theocratic slave state. But China still invaded and annexed them.
Was the US invasion of Iraq justified because Saddam was a dictator? If we annexed Iraq and didn’t make them speak English it would be fine?
Again you feel the need to bring up the US. This is all you got, isn’t it? “Hey, Hey, don’t call out my Camp, look at the US. They are bad!”.
You honestly believe everyone lies? Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, International Campaign for Tibet, Tibetan Centre for Human Rights and Democracy, the UN. All lie? But China tells the truth. You are so far gone it’s unbelievable. You question well documented facts, but you won’t believe that a regime that is notorious for lying won’t lie? You are waaaay too far gone that I, a random Person from the Internet, could ever convince you. I’m just going to block you, you are not worth arguing with any further. You have nothing of value to say I couldn’t read in a Chinese propaganda pamphlet.
Amazing, it only took you 2 comments to land right on genocide denial, unprovoked.
You’re a tankie, defending other tankies, and tankies aren’t communists, nor are you on the left, since you clearly aren’t in support of freedom and equality for all, never mind the rest of it, just more of the same bullshit - authoritarians co opting leftist ideas and language to grab power. Tale as old as fucking time…
Jesus christ, you don’t seem to realize how much of a fucked up accusation that is to throw around. Even the US State Department, who would love to claim any and all accusations against their geopolitical rivals, says there’s no mass killings in China, probably because the US couldn’t cause one like they did in 1965 in Indonesia.
Even if it’s not intentional, these kinds of thoughtless claims downplay actual mass killings like the one Israel is perpetrating against native Palestinians right now.
Hence why it’s important to scrutinize news, sources and claims, and not throw around baseless ones.
I do think we need a democratically elected authority though, or you get corporations and billionaires steering the government to wage wars for their own selfish profit from oil, materials etc. like what’s happening now with Israel. And rising inequality as wealth gathers at the top.
Perhaps a governing system like Cuba’s, which is Socialist and has one of the most open democracies in the world. It has an unusually high percentage of women in the government compared to the rest of the world thanks to that; 53.22% now (U.S has 29.0%), and better LGBT rights than the US nowadays. Also free healthcare, and enough free high level education to provide Italy with doctors during the pandemic, despite the ongoing 60 year US embargo.
Also $20 says this person isn’t pro palestine or anti zionist, just pro Hamas and pro raping and murdering jews
They’re being brainwashed and sterilized, if you don’t think that’s genocide you’re a dumbass and a piece of shit who wants them to die
There is, for better or worse, authoritarianism on the left. “You will be fed and given a place to stay and personal safety… or else!” Even in its more benign forms (ex Bolshevism) it’s kinda bad imo. When it gets extreme it gets… well… being an English speaker i’m sure you’ve heard all about it.
Places like Lemmygrad and Hexbear are actually pretty benign. They’re just on the verge of being acceptable to people so they make a lot of noise and cause a lot of drama but in terms of the actual bad actors… well, as you can see, they don’t even rate.
Meh, I don’t really find the open mass murder fetish benign at all. I don’t care what color your fash is, it’s still abhorrent.
I guess it’s slightly better that they’re mostly honest deniers instead of “they had it coming” types.
I think. I personally find it refreshing in small doses to deal with people that actually know what the fuck they’re talking about in terms of political theory, some of the shit .world users will say is…
Upsetting, intellectually.
Of course, so is talking to a genuine Stalinist.
My experience with hexbear has been pretty fucking far from them knowing political theory, outside of one very specific niche they can kind of articulate as long as you don’t ask them to reduce any of it to fundamentals or first principles.
As far as I can tell, their one trick is quoting books they haven’t actually read, assuming nobody else has read them either. I’ve literally had this same interaction three or four times at this point, over books which don’t say the things they think they say. Like multiple people arguing that some Chomsky work supports their orthodox ML theory.
You can literally get them to argue against the works they are trying cite by quoting them. It’s amusing for a bit, but then it’s just sad.
Hexbear and Lemmygrad are different instances, but tbh at this point I’m just happy with people that can at least vaguely define liberalism and socialism, and I don’t have to see the great minds upvote “communism is right wing, AKSHUALLY, because right wing means authoritarian.”
Edit: ah wait, your comment was under one about both, I conflated it with the other chain about Lemmygrad specifically.
Agreed. While I tend to disagree with most of the viewpoints coming from lemmygrad, at least the content is posted with benign intent. The room might stink, but nobody intentionally shat on the floor.
I like this figure of speech a lot, stealing it 😁