“Half of the Israeli public is no longer in favor of the war,” one friend told me Saturday night as we witnessed thousands of Israelis take to the streets to protest the Israeli government under the slogan, “Elections Now.” “Yes, but the other half is all-in, and REALLY in favor,” responded his wife. “And they are the more powerful group.”
She, of course, is right. For months, reports of torture and rape have emerged from Israel’s military base turned torture camp, Sde Teiman, where Israel has imprisoned thousands of Palestinians without charge. I wrote about it in a previous diary earlier this month. Palestinians who have emerged from this torture camp refer to it as the “slaughterhouse” with horrendous tales of torture, rape, abuse, and sleep deprivation being meted out by Israeli prison guards. Nearly 30 Palestinians have died while in Sde Teiman and other prisons, according to the information provided to date.
And while the precise chain of events is unclear, what we do know is that the Israeli military advocate general decided to dispatch the military police to question nine Israeli soldiers on suspicion of gang-raping and sodomizing a Palestinian man from Gaza at Sde Teiman. The man was rushed to the hospital where he exhibited signs of rape, including a ruptured bowel and broken ribs. It would be a mistake to simply think that Israel’s actions in prisons like Sde Teiman came only after October. Since becoming Israel’s national security minister in 2022, ultranationalist Itamar Ben Gvir has made prisons his target, with him authorizing abuse against Palestinians. He has also called for the death penalty to solve problems of overcrowding.
My tax dollars can’t be used to provide universal health care here in America, but they will go to support this, and there’s nothing I can do about it.
That’s depressing.
there’s nothing I can do about it
There is something we can do, but it takes unity, courage, willingness/resolve to suffer the consequences, regardless of the results. The first and last components are the hardest to muster, but they can be mustered. Time will tell.
Protesting against Israel in the USA quickly gets you pepper sprayed and beaten. This isn’t some theoretical.
And? People died to give us a 40 hour work week and voting rights, for some of us. The 40 hour week is gone and voting rights are shrinking. And neither major party is doing anything but moving miles right, economically. Socially left seems to be throwing a bone, while so many of us are overworked, underpaid, and still couch surfing, living rough and sick or dying. We have hard choices to make.
okay got it now what
What is your question?
i have unity, courage, and willingness/resolve to suffer the consequences. what action do i take now, or is the answer supposed to reveal itself?
Find like-minded individuals in your area. Direct action, mutual aid.
thankfully as a well-networkef furry and socialist i have also done this pretty well! now can i end the genocide?
Do you have a big and important enough network to shut down the economy and/or key infrastructure with a general strike? Because that’s the most effective non-violent way.
Perhaps you and your friends can devise a plan for… Wait for it… Direct action and mutual aid.
And Kamala is poised to choose one of the biggest zionists in the democratic party as her running mate…
Kamala isn’t a Zionist. Did you watch her speech she made recently after meeting Netanyahu? And Israel is pissed about what she said! That tells you all you need to know
Edit: no really, watch it. I can tell you haven’t 😚
Respectfully, what matters more to you: a politician’s words or their deeds?
I’d wager my life savings that Kamala, once elected, will go back on her word and support funding for Israel, just as every president has done even as Israel has become more and more of an apartheid.
It’s the best chance we’ve ever had. It would be foolish to punish her for stepping forward on this issue. It would just reinforce the status quo. If she goes back on it we’re just in the same situation. But it’s also possible that she actually holds Netanyahu accountable. She’s the only choice that’s even talked about doing that.
It’s possible, but given how presidents have ruled over the last 40 years, exceedingly unlikely. POTUS candidates on the campaign trail make a lot of promises they have no intention of keeping.
Yeah. But one way to move the ball ideologically is to
ejectelect people saying the right things. Eventually they have to actually do something and not just say something.If we give up or even try to vote for some 5d genius move where they said A so they mean B then all we ever get is the same old crap.
Edit- Damn Google… That’s straight up evil.
we ever get is the same old crap.
Exactly right.
All you can do for yourself in this system is invest as much of your money as you can in the stock market, because that is going to be the primary focus of the person we elect, and the only way you’ll get any real measure of representation.
will go back on her word and support funding for Israel,
To be kind of honest, I’d say that’s still optimistic - I say they are going to raise the level of support to unprecedented levels. Of course, it would be the exact same thing if Trump won… the only difference being that (so-called) “progressives” wouldn’t be falling over themselves to make all kinds of excuses for it.
You’re probably right.
We have bipartisanship for the absolute worst things.
It’s so sad you have given up on optimism. I haven’t
I was optimistic in 2008 and even voted for Obama.
We saw how that turned out, and with respect to Kamala, I expect the reboot to even worse than original, given the state of things in this country.
It just sounds like you would have made this exact comment and line of attack no matter who the Democrats chose, meaning it has nothing to do with Kamala
These days, absolutely.
I don’t think the Democratic or Republican candidates are anything more than useful idiots for the billionaire class, and I think the vast majority of their promises are outright lies.
We saw a great example of that over the last 2-3 years, with partisans defending very public cognitive breaks on the part of President Biden, who I personally think should be 25’d out. If he hadn’t had that exceedingly embarrassing incident at the debate, the Democrats and Democratic voters would still be defending him.
The Obama and Trump presidencies killed any optimism I have for our country and system of government. Obama was reelected AFTER making sure the big banks suffered no ill effects of willfully destroying our economy for profit. Trump spent more than a year of his presidency (cumulatively) on vacation, and even sold the Oval Office for ad space. (And that was BEFORE he led a literal insurrection on the Capitol.)
It’s difficult for me to understand anyone being optimistic, if you’re looking at the last 44 years (and in particular, 16 years) with an objective eye.
You mean when she said she will defend israel and uncontionally support israel after israel bombed Lebanon two days ago?
Vote for her! she will stop the genocide, trust me bro
You mean like her advocating for an immediate ceasefire, withdrawal of Israel’s military from Gaza entirely, and opening advocating for a two state solution? Which royally pissed off Israel? Remember that?
No I don’t remember that can you link that first claim to me?
Oh wow she starts by lying about the start of the Genocide, the death count on oct 7 and then spreads more debunked rape hoax propaganda to justify the Genocide
Where’s the part where she mentions witholding weapons to israel to achieve a ceasefire? I hoped you had more than the same finger-wagging we’ve seen from Genocide Joe for the past 9 months. Even the 2state thing is absolutely nothing new. Biden had always pretended to support it while giving israel more weapons to prevent it from happening.
I saw her release condeming protestors and calling them Hamas supporters.
Try watching her entire statement on that. You might learn something
I learned that she isnt aware burning the flag is protected as free speech.
If she picks Shapiro as a runningmate she’s signaling that she actually is a zionist.
She is going to choose Josh Shipiro as her running mate. He is a massive Zionist who brought a anti-BDS lawsuit against Ben and Jerry’s for refusing to sell their ice cream in Israel’s illegal settlements.
Kamala isn’t a Zionist.
Remind yourself about this conversation when you watch Harris redouble US support for that genocidal little white supremacist regime after November.
We’re going to need a new nickname if she’s elected. Maybe Killmonger Kamala?
yeah but we can wait till after the election
When I first heard about the riots I was thinking “finally, they’re reacting to something as egregious as rape”… you can only imagine the whiplash heartbreak I had when I found out they were rioting for it.
Agreed.
It’s tragedy with compounding interest, and as an American, I’m more than a little ashamed that my country is aiding and abetting it.
This whole thing has been so mask-off for Israel. I used to think that BDS was a distraction, that “Israel has right to defend itself” that “it’s the only real democracy in the middle east” etc. Now I know there is no space between Israel and Putin’s Russia. These are the bad guys. Full stop.
Agreed.
Israel is a democracy in the American sense, meaning we’ll bring you freedom at the end of a nuclear warhead.
that “Israel has right to defend itself” that “it’s the only real democracy in the middle east”
And what about the people that have been lying to you about it since at least the 70s?
It’s only a crime if you are not white
He has also called for the death penalty to solve problems of overcrowding
Completely normal thing to call for, nothing to see here. A lot of countries do that with their animal shelters. I do think it’s wrong, but it’s … Wait, we’re talking about human beings here. What the duck?
Gvir has also called for the death penalty to solve problems of overcrowding.
Reinhard Heydrich opened the Wansee Conference announcing it was too expensive to keep the ghettos open which informed the Jewish Problem but he and Eichmann had been testing a new solution.
Never again
The right’s right to do no right by any right.
Lol no media bias checker bot here? Wonder why
I doubt this’ll matter to you, but Zeteo is a new media company made up of highly respected journalists. They’re already doing excellent work.
Perhaps you would prefer CBS News?
yes, that’s a lot less loaded headline.
did you think you were delivering some sick burn, but shot yourself in your own leg instead? 😆
Summary
The Zeteo article uses highly emotional and critical language, aiming to evoke a strong emotional response from the reader, particularly outrage and condemnation towards Israeli actions and the societal response.
The CBS News article maintains a more neutral and factual tone, focusing on presenting a balanced view of the events and reactions, thus aiming to inform rather than to emotionally charge the reader.
Both articles discuss deeply disturbing events, but they differ significantly in their approach to tone and emotional engagement.
Maybe being biased against rape and torture is a good thing ¯\(ツ)/¯. Many newspapers used neutral and “objective” language in the 1800s when covering the lynching of black people, and it’s hypothesized that this helped normalize the practice. There are many valid criticisms against “journalistic objectivity.”
Also, be mindful that ChatGPT is intentionally biased through training data selection, RLHF, and many guardrails.
Maybe being biased against rape and torture is a good thing ¯(ツ)/¯
being biased in the news is never good thing. if you are biased, you are doing propaganda, not the news.
There are many valid criticisms against “journalistic objectivity.”
no, there are not. not unless you want to come up with some stupid joke like “objectivity means 5 minutes for hitler and 5 minutes for jew”, which, obviously, no sane person thinks.
objectivity means you bring, to the best of your ability, all relevant facts and let the reader draw their own conclusion instead of trying to manipulate them.
it is the difference between news and said propaganda.
Zios literally think rape is a neutral issue.
womp womp
“Your headline about the violent pro-prisoner-rape protests are biased.”
not just the headline, the whole article. and your hysterical one liner is not going to change that 😂
No sick burn was intended.
Regardless of whether you think an emotive or a dispassionate tone is more appropriate for this particular story, the facts contained in both articles remain the same, do they not?
the facts contained in both articles remain the same, do they not
yes, i am not disputing the facts.edit:
so it turned out that the facts are not, in fact, the same 😂
this is propaganda - notice how “the stick” became “the explosive”, which is pretty ludicrous manipulation.
and that is why i would never read the zeteo article behind the headline, haven’t i got into this discussion.
zeteo:
“Is inserting an explosive into the rectum of a person legitimate?” Likud Knesset member Hanoch Milvetsky responded with what has been the position of the right (more than 50% of the Knesset, remember): “If he is a Nukhba [Hamas commando], everything is legitimate.”
cbs:
Lawmaker Hanoch Milwidsky was asked as he defended the alleged abuse whether it was legitimate, “to insert a stick into a person’s rectum?”
“Yes!” he shouted in reply to his fellow parliamentarian. “If he is a Nukhba [Hamas militant], everything is legitimate to do! Everything!”
original:
the problem is you can make the same loaded headline about october 7 attack, and it doesn’t serve its purpose of sharing the facts, because most of potential readers will dismiss it right when finishing the headline.
i do want to believe that majority of the israeli society does not riot for a right to rape prisoners and as a person living 3000 km from the conflict, being fed emotional propaganda from both sides doesn’t make the job of making the opinion easier.
this is propaganda - notice how “the stick” became “the explosive”, which is pretty ludicrous manipulation.
and that is why i would never read the zeteo article behind the headline, haven’t i got into this discussion.
zeteo:
“Is inserting an explosive into the rectum of a person legitimate?” Likud Knesset member Hanoch Milvetsky responded with what has been the position of the right (more than 50% of the Knesset, remember): “If he is a Nukhba [Hamas commando], everything is legitimate.”
cbs:
Lawmaker Hanoch Milwidsky was asked as he defended the alleged abuse whether it was legitimate, “to insert a stick into a person’s rectum?”
“Yes!” he shouted in reply to his fellow parliamentarian. “If he is a Nukhba [Hamas militant], everything is legitimate to do! Everything!”
I disagree – I think there is definitely room for this more impassioned/personal style of reporting as long as the facts being reported are accurate, especially with this conflict in particular. After all, the headline is not misleading – people literally attacked military bases in defense of the right of IDF soldiers to rape and torture Palestinian detainees with impunity. That happened.
If you prefer the more dispassionate, passive-voice-using, equivocating language about what is going on in Israel/Palestine right now, you have almost the entire rest of the Western news media to choose from.
I think there is definitely room for this more impassioned/personal style of reporting as long as the facts being reported are accurate
you are thinking of propaganda.
thre isn’t room for passion in news, because passion clouds judgement and that stands in a way of accuracy.
you can be passionate about a subject, but it can’t affect your choice of facts or adjectives you use to emotionally manipulate the reader - because then you are simply not trustworthy and its even counterproductive to your goal, which is to share information about the subject of your passion.
The idea that propaganda cannot be propaganda if it is delivered in a dry, objective tone is nonsensical.
The Israel/Palestine conflict is a great example of this - especially in the US. Anyone who has closely watched the mainstream news media cover the situation in Gaza, or the college protests that sprung up as a result, has witnessed consent for Israel’s war being manufactured in front of their very eyes, along with the vilification of anyone who stands opposed to it. The fact that it is delivered by seemingly professional journalists in a somber, even tone has no bearing whatsoever on how accurately it describes reality.
You have a completely imaginary concept of how news works. It’s always biased. It’s always propaganda. Your “neutral tone” is just a propaganda tool of hegemony.
The best we can hope for is that the news is biased against rape, genocide, etc. Even though most often it is not.
i do want to believe that majority of the israeli society does not riot for a right to rape prisoners and as a person living 3000 km from the conflict, being fed emotional propaganda from both sides doesn’t make the job of making the opinion easier.
Oh so we need to let you remain delusional so you can live in comfort while people are raped and genocided nearby?
Because that’s the quote from the lawmaker asking the question. If they didn’t quote him exactly they’d be lying.
Even now, as a wider war with Hezbollah and Iran looms, Israel remains deeply divided over an incident that feels a lot like the US torture abuse scandal in Abu Ghraib and the January 6 riot rolled into one. Ahmad Tibi, a member of the Knesset (MK) from an Arab political party, asked during a parliamentary debate over the abuses at Sde Teiman if “inserting an explosive into the rectum of a person [is] legitimate.” In response, Hanoch Milvetsky — a member from Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s Likud party — said that when it came to Hamas commandos, “everything is legitimate.”
https://www.vox.com/politics/364343/israel-riot-military-base-sde-touman-torture-member-knesset
https://www.vox.com/politics/364343/israel-riot-military-base-sde-touman-torture-member-knesset
https://x.com/ireallyhateyou/status/1817904053462196523
Because that’s the quote from the lawmaker asking the question. If they didn’t quote him exactly they’d be lying.
not how it works. you don’t just quote any nonsense just because someone said it without adding context, especially if it could help misinterpret the merit of your article. unless, of course, that is exactly your goal.
because the bot allows some third party to define the overton window?
This community isn’t ran by Zionists like /news and /worldnews.
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Is there ever a legitimate reason for a genocide?
And is there any reason for this genocide other than Zionism?
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Ah idk I don’t track or register individual usernames on here or go look at their other posts honestly so I wasn’t aware there was a long running beef
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Is bullying language is better than “whiney, self- victimizing” language? C’mon bro.
There’s a bunch of liberals on .world that get really upset when you point out Joe Biden is the reason israel can commit Genocide.
So upset that you don’t even have to mention Biden anymore they will just instinctively defend israel now. They do their classic Genocide apologia schtick every time they get called out.
We win and make change by making allies and building solidarity. Not self victimization and whiny name calling.
Like everything, there’s a flip-side. That means acknowledging our own wrongs, and addressing them. I’m not overly-fond of 12 Step programs, but there are some decent ideas they’ve put forth. One of them is “Principles before personalities.”
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I blocked it. It was extremely annoying.
it seems the company is newly established and bias check doesn’t have a record for it. the headline indeed is credibility review in itself 😂
this is its founder - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mehdi_Hasan - make with it what you will
Odds are mbfc will rate it poorly simply for being too
meancritical towards Israelodds are it will be because they lie.
notice how “the stick” became “the explosive”, which is pretty ludicrous manipulation.
zeteo:
“Is inserting an explosive into the rectum of a person legitimate?” Likud Knesset member Hanoch Milvetsky responded with what has been the position of the right (more than 50% of the Knesset, remember): “If he is a Nukhba [Hamas commando], everything is legitimate.”
cbs:
Lawmaker Hanoch Milwidsky was asked as he defended the alleged abuse whether it was legitimate, “to insert a stick into a person’s rectum?”
“Yes!” he shouted in reply to his fellow parliamentarian. “If he is a Nukhba [Hamas militant], everything is legitimate to do! Everything!”
Because that’s the quote from the lawmaker asking the question. If they didn’t quote him exactly they’d be lying.
Even now, as a wider war with Hezbollah and Iran looms, Israel remains deeply divided over an incident that feels a lot like the US torture abuse scandal in Abu Ghraib and the January 6 riot rolled into one. Ahmad Tibi, a member of the Knesset (MK) from an Arab political party, asked during a parliamentary debate over the abuses at Sde Teiman if “inserting an explosive into the rectum of a person [is] legitimate.” In response, Hanoch Milvetsky — a member from Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s Likud party — said that when it came to Hamas commandos, “everything is legitimate.”
https://www.vox.com/politics/364343/israel-riot-military-base-sde-touman-torture-member-knesset
