PSA (?): just got this popup in Firefox when i was on an amazon product page. looked into it a bit because it seemed weird and it turns out if you click the big “yes, try it” button, you agree to mandatory binding arbitration with Fakespot and you waive your right to bring a class action lawsuit against them. this is awesome thank you so much mozilla very cool
https://queer.party/@m04/112872517189786676
So, Mozilla adds an AI review features for products you view using Firefox. Other than being very useless, it’s T&C are as anti-consumer as it possibly can be. It’s like mozilla saying directly “we don’t care about your privacy”.
LibreWolf
Cool it with the universal AI hate. There are many kinds of AI, detecting fake reviews is a totally reasonable and useful case.
but it does not work. This stuff never does.
What do you mean by “this stuff?” Machine learning models are a fundamental part of spam prevention, have been for years. The concept is just flipping it around for use by the individual, not the platform.
I have large doubts on an AIs ability to reliably spot fakes.
AI: “This is definitely a fake review because I wrote it.”
There are literal bots on Reddit with less complexity able to measure the likelihood of a story being reliable and truthful, with facts and fact checkers. They’re not always right, they ARE useful though. Or were. Not sure about now, been over a year since I left.
Would you mind pointing me in the direction of those AIs since the newfangled factcheck bot seems to just pull its data from a premade database, so no AI here on Lemmy
i did not get a pop up on a amazon page maybe a us only thing idk but its ironic how firefox advertises Privacy related feature
Yeah I’m thinking this might be a nightly experiment/recommended extension?
I’m in the US and don’t see it, so I don’t think it’s a thing, at least on the stable channel.
Seems like you can press the not now button
Not a big deal…
I consider it a big deal. I’m clicking “Not Now” buttons all day when I just want to use a piece of software for its main purpose. And then because it says “Not Now” I get asked again and again and again.
Hot take and I can guarantee this will be downvoted but I think people are putting way too much blind trust into Mozilla for this.
They just purchased an advertising company, they made the T&C waive your right to a class action lawsuit. They keep giving their CEO raises and laying off their workers. Mozilla is actively enshittifying but people don’t react until it’s too late because it’s a boiling frog situation.
Whether you think the feature is useful or not, Firefox is unfortunately shifting away from being a privacy-focused user-focused browser. The saving grace is that it is open source and forks can be made of it, “Firefox” itself can survive anything as long as there’s enough interest to keep it alive
I think that Mozilla does great work, but they’ve lost sight of their goals, and are changing focus. This is not necessarily a bad thing, but this needs to be looked at objectively instead of with brand-loyalty. At the end of the day, they’re just another company with financial interests prioritized over user interests.
Hot take
Thats not a hot take anymore. A lot of people in privacy communities are moving to forks of Firefox that disable Mozilla’s bullshit.
You can opt out of it?
Which forks?
Mullvad browser for me
Thank you.
Ooh. Thanks
Mullvad Browser (Tor Browser without onion network), Librewolf, Arkenfox (not a fork, just hardes regulär Firefox and disables mozilla’s telemetry)
I downloaded it but the option to come back to where I left off when I close the program was greyed out. I’m a tab-a-holic and I don’t like that. Any comments about that?
On desktop I’ve been using Librewolf, Mullvad Browser is good too. There’s also some forks on Android, Mull and Fennec, of those I prefer Mull
Edit: Waterfox is another fork on desktop but they had some controversy when bought by an advertising company, but they’re independent again as of last year
Do the same browser plugins work on librewolf?
Yes. Out of the box, it has uBlock Origin installed.
Fennec
isn’t fennec a 1:1 rebuild? I believe it still has everything turned on
It has some of the proprietary stuff and telemetry removed
What even would be the purpose of such software?
rebuild for distribution on fdroid as not to violate trademarks
Thank you.
What would you recommend for Android?
Also, have you found anything that works well with Firefox Sync? I use Sync for my bookmarks but it doesn’t seem to be able to sync with LibreWolf
I know Librewolf says that. I have tried to use Sync but after signing into my Mozilla account Librewolf doesn’t recognise me as logged in and doesn’t sync.
I’d recommend Mull, it’s pretty much Librewolf for Android
As for the syncing I’m not sure
Commenting to check these out later
@DoucheBagMcSwag @nia_the_cat Did you checked it?
man why do people always label the most cold-ass takes in the universe as hot takes
Depending where you are it is. On some Mozilla communities you’re downvoted into oblivion or dogpiled on for saying this. I was pleasantly surprised here that it wasn’t, I’m pretty new to this one.
A lot of them are very fanboy heavy
What irks me is that they proudly announce that these features are baked in directly in the browser. Why the FUCK would they do that? I want my browser to be a browser only. Everything else must be relegated to an optional add-on.
they made the T&C waive your right to a class action lawsuit
Fakespot did already have that before they got acquired. Which doesn’t mean it’s not worth changing, of course.
until it’s too late because it’s a boiling frog situation.
That’s a common misconception. If frogs are thrown into boiling water they almost die instantly, if they are placed in a pot that’s slowly beginning to boil, they desperately try to escape after a while
Huh, that is a surprising new revelation.
Why not just be a web browser and leave stuff like this to browser extensions?
Oh right, you enshittified yourself.You are not wrong. I got curious how much they receive in donations, but could not find anything about it in their financial statements.
That is where I looked and could not find it, albeit only on my short commute from work.
didn’t the Firefox management say they would focus on their core product rather than random little services like this
Actually I thought there new ceo said they were going to fuck around with AI stuff.
Edit:
At this point, I’m glad I switched to Mull on my phone. It took a bit of overcoming the resistance of using Firefox for decades (Stockholm syndrome), but I don’t miss Firefox one bit.
Now I need to do that on my desktop, but I’m still shopping. Librewolf? Palemoon? Ice Weasel? What are folks here trying out these days?
Isn’t Mull basicslly Firefox since it’s just a Firefox-based fork? The UI seems to be identical to me - don’t notice any other differences on my phone
Isn’t Mull basicslly Firefox since it’s just a Firefox-based fork?
I don’t understand why that would be a bad thing. If Firefox starts to enshittify then a fork from before the enshittification is exactly what I want.
It’s not - quite the contrary. I was just wondering what the commenter that I replied to meant when they said that it took them some getting used to. For me, it’s just a slight change in design and a different icon
Yes, it’s Firefox without the bullshit.
It’s ironic that Firefox started the same way, actually.
When Netscape open sourced its browser and then fucked it up, some folks took the source code and built “Phoenix,” much, much later becoming Firefox.
Lots of love for librewolf here.
Strong fingerprint resistance breaks a lot of sites so just get used to disabling that on whatever sites.
On Android I am using Waterfox. Still looking for alternatives on desktop.
Mullvad Browser is pretty good on desktop.
Yeah but to be fair they bought this years ago. Just took them forever to integrated. I suspect any changes in direction will truly show in 3-4 years, once the current backlog (no don’t look at my company’s Jira, TYVM! 😑 ) is cleared.
I was happy when they used an entirely on-device AI to generate alt text for photos, but this is just ridiculous. They quite literally already have an extension that does the exact same thing this new “feature” offers.
Firefox was supposed to be a less bloated than chrome, but all they’ve done now is continued to add more and more to the browser that nobody actually asked for.
Give me bug fixes, UX and performance improvements, not entire sidebar popups for review checking that only works on 3 stores on the entire internet.
For the new AI review feature, we are the product not the customers.
I’m starting to worry about Mozilla. Firefox is still the best browser, and I’ve used it for many years… but there are more and more anti-features popping up that require a few settings to be changed. No one thing is a big deal, but I’m starting to feel the same way about Firefox as I did about Windows before I stopped using it: like it’s just trying to trick me into doing something I don’t want to do rather than aiming to be a good product.
I’m thinking specifically about the address bar getting ‘search suggestions’ from Google by default; and the special ‘ad effectiveness tracking’ that is turned on by default to help Facebook. Privacy should always be the default setting. We shouldn’t have to keep up-to-date with the latest features and settings just so that we know what to disable!
Firefox is gone for me. Too long with minor issues hanging around while they focus on the issues above.
Let me browse, bookmark, and thats pretty much it. Allowing me to save passwords okay fine but all that other stuff just no way
I actually use fakespot a lot, but will never install an add-on for this.
I got that notice a few months ago, but I didn’t use either button on the bottom. I used the X on the top, and haven’t seen it since.
<rant>I thought we were done with the age of Toolbars, but here we are, back there. An app or add-on for every damn thing. No, I don’t want this integrated into my browser. No, I don’t need your HTML5 app on my phone to do less than the webpage does. No, I don’t want your spyware app to view the one-off Twitter, Facebook, or Instagram link a friend sends me. No, I don’t mean ‘maybe later’, I mean ‘no forever’.</rant>
but here we are, back there.
The upside is that if you’re ever prompted to install a thing to your browser to use a site’s features, it’s because the built-in sandbox is too restrictive for what they want. It’s an immediate red flag.
I also view prompts to “use our (phone) app” the same way. I’m already seeing your site, in my browser, with ten different kinds of adblock and tampermonkey scripts running. I already have what I want, and I’m not letting you anywhere near my data plan.
Clearly, it’s time for a “no means no” extension.
But the thing is, most people don’t think twice about it, and just go, “meh, why not, what’s the harm?” and install it, which tells those scummy summersons that “we” want this, and they keep pushing it, and making their site more and more useless without it, to the point, where ‘desktop view’ no longer works (I’m looking at you, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Google, to name a few).
Its getting to the point where its affecting services I use in the real world like ordering food. Having to explain why I’m not using an app and being upset the website doesnt work will definitely have customer service people who dont understand the implications of the system theyre promoting rolling their eyes at me for making their lives harder
I never explain exactly why. I skirt. “my phone isn’t compatible with your app”, “I don’t have a modern smartphone that works with your app”, “I don’t install apps on my phone”, “I don’t have space on my phone for your app”, “I only a work phone, and I’m not allowed to install anything”, and so on. They don’t care about your privacy, so don’t give it as a reason. “it’s not about privacy, I’m just poor”.
Fakespot is from Mozilla, if you trust Mozilla, why don’t you trust Fakespot?
And why is it useless? With the amount of fake AI reviews an AI to detect them is not completely useless.
But the popup is annoying.
People shouldn’t trust Mozilla either. It’s a company that does company things. Just because it’s not as far-gone as Google doesn’t mean it’s incapable.
just because its not as far-gone as Google
The fact that the Mozilla Foundation is non-profit, despite wherever controversy there may be around their decisions of late, is a pretty significant factor.
Mozilla Foundation has no members, it’s operated by the for-profit Corporation, and the Corporation is powered by its profit motive.
Even worse, the majority of its revenue comes from Google for making it the default search engine.
I never said they should trust. But if they trust Mozilla with the telemetry/pockets/whatever they put on the browser this one is just like the others.
I trust Mozilla to do what they promise with my private data
Lol who the f trusts Mozilla nowadays?
Shouldn’t trust Fakespot or Mozilla
And why is it useless?
It’s not useless. It’s just that it’s bloatware that’s unnecessary for many.
Like a car with a bright orange “Order Bird Food” button in the middle of the dashboard. If you don’t own any birds, then it sucks.
Nothing new in the helm of browsers. Pockets is a extension baked into the browser.
Many browsers have VPN/Ad Block native to the browser. Opera GX have all that bullshit that surprising can deceive a lot of normies to use it.
Sadly this type of bloat sells as “features” to some people and Mozilla gains users with it. Btw I’m not defending this practice I just seeing for what it is, marketing.
Sure, sure, other browsers do it. But I expected more of Mozilla.
Pocket was already bad enough, but it was kiiiiinda related to browsing anyway - it was a glorified bookmarking tool. It had a nice purpose too - save pages for online reading - but they seem to have gotten rid of that and I’m mad about it.
Using AI to detect AI is completely useless. It’s been a big issue in academics, where a professor will plug your essay into an AI detector and then you get dinged for plagiarism because your entirely handwritten essay gets marked as AI. It’s just glorified pattern matching, it has no concept of real or fake.
If the AI could really detect any discrepancies between human and AI-generated text, it would stop making them.
Click the big X button in the top right corner
Average Windows enjoyer
I actually love Fakespot. I’ve had it installed as an extension for years, but now it’s native
And that’s the bullshit part. It shouldn’t be native. A browser should be a browser.
Oh they’re finally integrating fake spot? That’s awesome, actually! Pretty cool plugin, that!
and its behind OHTTPS so your usage of it is completely anonymized
anonymized data can be re-identified
Sure, Mozilla customer representative #37.
Must be an easy world where anyone disagreeing with you has to always be a shill. Gets you around annoying concepts such as arguments, discussions or opinions.
Nah my good shill. I’ve had very interesting discussions about contrarian points in the past, and they’ve been enlightening. This one is… I mean, if you’re really not a shill, then be aware that baking that feature into a web browser is selfishly unnecessary.
“strategic partnerships”
https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/review-checker-review-quality
Protect your privacy
Firefox is committed to empowering you with information about review reliability while respecting your privacy. We use Oblivious HTTP (OHTTP) for Review Checker.
When Review Checker is turned on, we use information about the products you visit on Amazon, Best Buy and Walmart to analyze the reviews, but by using OHTTP we ensure Mozilla cannot link you or your device to the products you have viewed. OHTTP uses encryption and a third party intermediary server to offer a technical guarantee that this is the case: all Mozilla learns from this network request is that someone, somewhere, looked at a given product.
Here is a talk on OHTTP (OHAI) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HEzpnktAwY
and a OHTTP recap https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjLwo4Ufp8s
Basically, if you trust the OHTTP Proxy (mozilla) and the OHTTP service provider (fakespot) to not collude, then OHTTP protects your data.
If you think Mozilla and fakespot might collude, then this doesn’t give you any privacy.
Depends on your threat model.
Wait, where does it say that Mozilla is the third-party intermediary server?
It doesn’t, but when modeling threats we have to go be capabilities and not intentions.
If we’re going by capabilities, then your browser maker can already see everything you do in that browser.
I don’t trust Mozilla one single bit with my data as long as they have an advertising network enabled by default and use pingback telemetry for ALL actions you do in the browser by default that can only be turned off by changing multiple “hidden”
about:config
settings.Mozilla says they use a third-party OHTTP intermediary. In the blog post linked above, they name Fastly as their partner. So it’s not as bad as Mozilla + Mozilla-wearing-funny-glasses.
Personally, I still think this is the wrong approach to privacy, even though I’ve used Fakespot on my own many times over the years. Largely because I don’t think any of this needs to be built into a web browser.
I would prefer my web browser to minimize information leakage by default, to the greatest degree that it can while still remaining useful as a web browser. Mozilla keeps adding bloat to Firefox, and bloat always comes at a cost. I’d much prefer these to be browser extensions that people can download if they want them, rather than built in by default. The baseline Firefox should be lean. Less “stuff” = smaller attack surface. Simplicity is best.
I mean, the Fakespot browser extension has existed for a long time, and I’ve never seriously considered installing it. I’d much rather just take an extra three seconds to load their web site and paste in a URL than have it constantly monitoring my activity and doing god-knows-what with it. That way I have better knowledge and control of what is happening with my data. Even if I trust their intentions, I don’t implicitly trust their competence (all software has bugs) and I don’t trust that they will never go rogue in the future.
And also, I just don’t find this claim all that compelling in principle:
By processing the data jointly across two independent parties, they ensure neither party holds the information required to reveal sensitive information about someone.
I mean…sure. That’s fair. Buuuuuut handing half the data to your “partner” doesn’t give me a whole lot of confidence. Especially since literally nobody reads all of the privacy policies they are subject to. See:
Minimizing privacy policies should be a high-priority goal for any organization that claims to value privacy.
Furthermore, how many additional parties have access (legally or otherwise) to both Mozilla and Fastly? 🤷
i would like to see mozilla making all of these features as full fledged browser extensions (installed by default, sure why not, but uninstallable at user request)
I remember when Firefox was brand new over 20 years ago and one of the reasons for creating it was the main Mozilla browser had too much feature bloat so it was stripped down to just a browser and if you wanted more features you could add them in as extensions, putting just what you wanted in the browser and leaving out what you didn’t. It was great! Eventually Firefox became more popular so Mozilla switched their efforts to it and they’ve been jamming more things that used to be extensions in as features and bloating it full of features I don’t want. It’s one of the reasons I started using Chrome in the early days of Chrome but then of course that and Google started getting worse so I switched back to Firefox, but it still has its problems.
I dislike doublespeak