• jubilationtcornpone@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
      0·
      3 months ago

      Half the time it’s trying to figure out where to apply the next piece of duct tape to keep the entire house of cards (and duct tape) from collapsing.

    • Buttons@programming.devEnglish
      0·
      3 months ago

      In times past they got shit done, and now we see that what they’ve done is shit and we’re stuck maintaining it.

    • szczuroarturo@programming.dev
      0·
      3 months ago

      Yup. Thats just enterprise software for you. Something was made requiremnts changed, and then changed again and then ypu have duct tape on top of a duct tape with a duct tape holding those duct tapes and a touch of super glu here and there. Also ducttapes are microscopic in size but the sheer quantity of them is unimaginable.

  • psion1369@lemmy.world
    0·
    3 months ago

    I used to joke with my niece that my programming job was just me staring at screens and meetings all day. She didn’t believe me until she got to shadow me one day and got super bored.

    • dan1101@lemm.ee
      0·
      3 months ago

      But when your brain is fascinated by all that has to happen for those screens and meetings to happen, it can still be an interesting job.

      • whotookkarl@lemmy.world
        0·
        3 months ago

        Not op but guessing she had an idea from media like TV shows and movies that make technical jobs seem much more exciting for entertainment over realism. Crises are usually more Jerry accidentally deleted a directory and we need to recover some files and establish safe guard procedures to prevent it from happening again or this thing broke that nobody even knew existed so we gotta figure it out and less type fast enough to save the mainframe from l33t hackers.

  • KindaABigDyl@programming.dev
    0·
    3 months ago

    I agree with the last point tbh

    At the bare minimum, if you aren’t capable of contributing to the library you use, then you don’t deserve to use it.

    • xmunk@sh.itjust.works
      0·
      3 months ago

      I disagree, if you aren’t capable of contributing to a library you should be required to use it rather than roll your own solution.

        • force@lemmy.world
          0·
          3 months ago

          Because software devs have the weeks/months to learn vulkan every time they want to use a GUI for their job, or to learn compiler design whenever they wanna use java for their job

          • KindaABigDyl@programming.dev
            0·
            3 months ago

            to learn vulkan every time they want to use a GUI for their job

            Not every time, just the first time. But yes. Devs should stop being so lazy

            compiler design whenever they wanna use java for their job

            Every dev should at least know the basics of language design and compiler design, yes. Again, you also only have to learn it once

            • xmunk@sh.itjust.works
              0·
              3 months ago

              As someone who has written a DB handle… that shit is hard, I had to be extremely careful to protect against SQL injection. Everyone rolling their own is how we return to the Era of XSS and SQL Injection on every website. I’d prefer to have young devs use libraries and contribute as they gain knowledge.

                • xmunk@sh.itjust.works
                  0·
                  3 months ago

                  They do… but the road to naturally learning that lesson comes with the cost of enabling botnets and destroying businesses. Maybe there should be a qualification exam to be a developer but when there isn’t we need to make sure more junior developers have the best tools they can get to fight against foot guns.

                  Also, on the topic of security, a lot of good senior level developers don’t have the specialized knowledge to do shit like build a password validation system that isn’t vulnerable to a timing attack or know what a timing attack is…

                  And timezones, fuck timezones, I’ve written code that correctly handled timezones (and subsequently threw it away when Canada decided to DST on a different weekend). Imagine how shitty it’d be if we constantly had to reinvent the wheel when it came to timezones.

                  Oh, and forget about databases… do you know how fucking hard it is to write an ACID compliant WAL? The reason postgres is the default open source database (and why so many databases are just layers built on top of postgres’s engine) is because it’s fucking hard. Mongo still (IIRC) has consistency issues, they were a tech darling for half a decade and can’t manage to NoSQL as well as Postgres.

                  Also, good luck building a GUI with anything more complicated than curses style box art characters.

                  I started mildly disagreeing with you but I disagree even more that I’ve thought about other tools people would need to roll on their own.

            • Valmond@lemmy.mindoki.com
              0·
              3 months ago

              The best developers are the laziest.

              I’d take a dev slowly using a library with a one liner than a noob writing 500 lines of code doing the same thing any day.

              • KindaABigDyl@programming.dev
                0·
                3 months ago

                That’s how you end up with the unmaintainable state that enterprise software is currently in. “Just Works” mentality is a cancer

            • indepndnt@lemmy.world
              0·
              3 months ago

              Honestly, why? We’ve got billions of people driving around in cars they don’t know how to build. Is that a problem too?

  • NaoPb@eviltoast.orgEnglish
    0·
    3 months ago

    Turns out the people in IT don’t actually make the computers either. Who’d have thought?

    • mikyopii@programming.dev
      0·
      3 months ago

      I’ve been an actual janitor and a sysadmin… they’re not dissimilar. You clean up other people’s shit for a living.

      • a4ng3l@lemmy.world
        0·
        3 months ago

        So do I but with exception of the unfortunate cp that calls for bleaching eyes (and security) one is more sanitary than the other…

          • a4ng3l@lemmy.world
            0·
            3 months ago

            Telco. Back then I was internal investigation. 25k employees. Bound to have some bad apples unfortunately. Honestly not weirder than elsewhere.

          • Zorsith@lemmy.blahaj.zoneEnglish
            0·
            3 months ago

            Any day you/your company could potentially be contacted by a 3 letter agency and/or the police to pull the data from a specific user for an investigation. “ESI request” is a term I hear on occasion.

            It’s a good idea to be on good terms with your employers lawyers.

  • jimmydoreisalefty@lemmy.world
    0·
    3 months ago

    hahaha, this reminds me of certain politicians…

    Where they say the quiet part out loud, while most people will ignore it and the status quo continues as is.

    We don’t want the Silicon Valley bubble to imploding, right?

    p.s. would burst be a better word than imploding? word of the day…

  • s12@sopuli.xyz
    0·
    3 months ago

    The IT people! The DEV team’s worst nemesis! They must be stopped before we are destroyed!

  • Onno (VK6FLAB)@lemmy.radio
    0·
    3 months ago

    It’s mind bending that there are actual humans on the planet, paid a shit tonne more than software developers, who not only believe the parody highlighted by @SwiftOnSecutity, but treat and share it as gospel, acting on it with nutjob metrics to “increase productivity” whilst salivating over the hyperbole around “AI” that is sweeping the globe, dreaming of a better world.

    One without those pesky developers with their brains, thoughts and opinions.

    But, what do I know, I’ve been in this profession for only 40 years…

    • themeatbridge@lemmy.world
      0·
      3 months ago

      You’re probably not the biggest asshole in the room. In my experience, the person making decisions (and the most money) is never the most qualified, most competent, most efficient, or hardest working individual. They are just the biggest asshole in the room. They’re willing to be loud and belligerently wrong, they’re willing to take credit for the accomplishments of others, they’re willing to shift blame onto someone else, they’re willing to demand everyone else work harder than they do, and they’re willing to demand far more than their fair share of the profit.

      And they will be mollified by the rest because nobody is a bigger asshole. Most people just want to do their jobs, and don’t want to rock the boat. Competent people see opportunity to ride in the wake of the biggest asshole in the room.

      If you ever watch Shark Tank, you’ll see they are masters of the craft.

      • SlopppyEngineer@lemmy.world
        0·
        3 months ago

        They are just the biggest asshole in the room

        That’s always fun in sales. The vendor that brazenly promises two-and-a-half mirage for half the price will win the bid, and the sales people will move on to a different employer when the real budget for the project becomes clear.

      • whereisk@lemmy.world
        0·
        3 months ago

        The problem is that most of us have swallowed the ‘competence uber alles’ ideal that school fed us through exams and scoring, when the game really is mostly politics (as in interpersonal relationships). So we are understandably disappointed when the incompetent get promoted through brown nosing or luck, when we should be reevaluating the rules of the game.

      • jadero@programming.dev
        0·
        3 months ago

        They are just the biggest asshole in the room.

        So one day the different body parts were arguing over who should be in charge.

        The eyes said they should be in charge, because they were the primary source of information about the world.

        The stomach said it should be in charge because digestion was the source of energy.

        The brain said it should be in charge because it was in charge of information processing and decision-making.

        The rectum said nothing, just closed up shop.

        Before long, the vision was blurry, the stomach was queasy, and the brain was foggy.

        Assholes have been in charge ever since.

  • Hundun@beehaw.org
    0·
    3 months ago

    As a programmer, I concur. I sit on my arse all day pushing keys , anybody can do that.

    • maryjayjay@lemmy.world
      0·
      3 months ago

      They do the same thing building architects do. They draw pretty pictures of the end product that may of may not be structurally sound, then rely on engineers to build it and make sure it doesn’t collapse.

    • rimjob_rainer@discuss.tchncs.de
      0·
      3 months ago

      A good software engineer is also an architect. You don’t need dedicated architects if you have good developers.

      But on the other hand there are much more questionable and unnecessary jobs like product managers or managers of managers.

      • xmunk@sh.itjust.works
        0·
        3 months ago

        I disagree with not needing dedicated architects at least once you reach a certain size. If there are 50 plus developers working on a dozen or more projects there’s a large communication cost to stay on top of everything.

    • fruitycoder@sh.itjust.works
      0·
      3 months ago

      I always saw architects roles in modern development being the person trying to find synergies between different teams andcoordinateing them working with each other.

      Like if some team makes a sick project for managing streams of data streams the architect should be promoting it for other teams to leverage.

      • xmunk@sh.itjust.works
        0·
        3 months ago

        That’s one role, as a software architect I also often served as the sunk cost fallacy bad news delivery system. It’s a good idea to keep some eyes from outside your team on your project just to do the occasional sensibility check.

        There is also a large responsibility to make sure different teams are well coordinated and not building the system in directly opposing directions. It really fucking sucks to have your work, as a developer, invalidated by someone else’s work suddenly without any warning.

      • fsxylo@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
        0·
        3 months ago

        Seriously. If Elon shut down Tesla tomorrow all these engineers would be building electric cars at other companies.

        • brbposting@sh.itjust.works
          0·
          3 months ago

          Does (or does not) he get the credit for committing the fraud that kept Tesla in business long enough to popularize* electric cars that there are other companies at which to build them?

          Aforementioned fraud:

          (When searching, found apparently jurors in 2023 disagreed with my assessment, so please take with grain of salt.)

          *I say “popularize” given:

          Tesla was incorporated in July 2003 by [not Elon! but] Martin Eberhard and Marc Tarpenning as Tesla Motors.

      • LordKitsuna@lemmy.world
        0·
        3 months ago

        He’s a piece of shit but he restarted the Space Race that was literally dying, push the industry into electric cars when none of them were willing to do it. His actual products may be garbage but it doesn’t stop that it started the movements that needed to happen in the industry.

        To say that he contributed nothing at all is unfortunately false as much as I may hate the man