Both are terrifying in different ways… one is power, the other is chaos up close.
The image is misleading, but the CPC itself acknowledged at least 241 deaths. Also, you cannot find information about the incident while in China. Can personally confirm.
Also, you cannot find information about the incident while in China. Can personally confirm.
Yeah no information, it’s only taught as part of the mandatory “outline of modern Chinese history” at university.
In that link, they refer to it as:
“The 1989 political turmoil and subsidence.”
That is a really weird way to call a massacre, don’t you think?
Please we all know that the Government hides the search results in China if you look for it. Or are you going to deny that?
Like, why lie?
China bans Tiananmen Square-related web search terms https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-18321548
https://www.businessinsider.com/words-china-banned-from-search-engines-after-tiananmen-square-2014-6
Because massacre is poor categorization of what was a violent clash between rioters and the military acting as riot police. Like why pretend to be a leftists when you’re a Canadian settler shitlib. Clearly not very good at categorising things. Also when did I deny their were restrictions around what is a very sensitive event that had western backing? All I said was that it is taught about as part of a mandatory course at university. The idea it’s fully blacked out is western chauvinist fantasy and honestly not even a very creative one. You are not very intelligent are you?
Go get em, Mr. Shlong!
You know there are photos of the dead people right? And videos?
Canadian Seltler shitllib? Hahaha. Cute, friend. You know nothing about me.
Nice that you went and checked my history as to come up with something to side track my points. I am not sure if you are a CCP shill or just brainwashed in propaganda.
Also, you are moving the goal post, friend. You told the guy you responded to that the Tiananmen Square masacre was not censored. It is. That is my point and provided proof that it is and I can do that without lowering to your level of insults. Clearly, I hit a nerve, it is okay Comrade. Be happy.
There is a reason why put a link in Chinese in an English speaking forum without translaltion.
You know there are photos of the dead people right? And videos?
People die when rioters (whose leaders did interviews explaining their plan to incite massive violence and flee to America) clash with the military did I deny that? It was categorically not a massacre.
You know nothing about me.
From replying to you before I know you’re Canadian and a self proclaimed lib thus 90% chance you’re white thus a settler. So taking it all together Canadian settler shitlib.
Nice that you went and checked my history as to come up with something to side track my points. I am not sure if you are a CCP shill or just brainwashed in propaganda.
Again didn’t check your history we’ve simply talked before. Also holy chauvinism really reinforcing the whole settler shitlib. And it’s CPC not CCP.
Also, you are moving the goal post, friend. You told the guy you responded to that the Tiananmen Square masacre was not censored. It is.
Massive twisting of what was said. He said you couldn’t find any information when in fact it is part of the mandatory university course which is all I pointed out.
Again I must ask are you genuinely unintelligent?
You’re a racist Han bigot. Don’t bother relying. I don’t communicate with stupid racists.
I’m not Han lmao. The irony of you making a racist assumption calling me racist. 🤣
You are referring to unarmed protestors against fully armed military, with tanks? LOL, aha. Damn those rioters attacking the military with their own blood, splattered on the square. Those demons!
Not white. You know nothing about me. Keep Shilling, Comrade. Oh, we talked before? Is that so? Oh, fair, but I do not remember you, nor care to know you. It is true that I am a Liberal and I will give you the decency of not being as petty as you, since I do not have to rely on insults when I have facts and sources.
Again, all you have proven is that I hit a nerve. Can’t even take the slightest of critism.
So, here is the difference of the searches that people did even back in the day, noticed the difference between the searches in Chinese VS the ones outside of China. Thus proving OPs and my point.
For anyone to look, like this is nothing new. This is how China would change results on actual internet searches. https://imgur.com/a/vbkFA
The university course on your link is reframed, obviously. That is the whole point on censorship. I can tell by the other curses and the content that a lot of things are reframed as well. Again, there is reason why you posted a Chinese link in an English focused site. We all know how idealogues think.
Anyway, stop lying. That point remains.
Lastly, on this segment of this documentary, Tank Man, these Asian students claim to not even recognize the famous “Tank Man” when asked.
So, either they do not know, which I fully doubt, if you hear what she says, or they do know, which is the case,but do not want to publicly discuss it on camera and risk getting any type of trouble. Take your pick.
From 2008: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuuddurPLV8&t=86
Rely in common sense comrade. Have a great one, Cheers.
You are referring to unarmed protestors against fully armed military, with tanks? LOL, aha. Damn those rioters attacking the military with their own blood, splattered on the square. Those demons!
They literally immolated and lynched military guards to start the riot. You are extremely fucking arrogant for how little you understand anything.
when I have facts and sources
Lmao. What you actually have is a chauvinist fantasy and an immense arrogance.
Can’t even take the slightest of critism.
you have provided no criticism just a vast misrepresentation of what I said and the events in question.
So, here is the difference of the searches that people did even back in the day, noticed the difference between the searches in Chinese VS the ones outside of China. Thus proving OPs and my point.
Again not what we were talking about he said there was no information implying and perpetuating the nonsense lie that the date/event is scrubbed from history which is factually incorrect in the same way saying Winnie the pooh is banned is factually incorrect.
The university course on your link is reframed, obviously. That is the whole point on censorship. I can tell by the other curses and the content that a lot of things are reframed as well. Again, there is reason why you posted a Chinese link in an English focused site. We all know how idealogues think.
Chauvinism.
Lastly, on this segment of this documentary, Tank Man, these Asian students claim to not even recognize the famous “Tank Man” when asked.
He’s famous because who he is and what he did are completely reframed in the west as some sacrificial martyr jumping Infront of tanks (generally with the implication that he was ran over) whereas in reality he was a random man who wanted the tanks to return to the square and was ushered off by passers by not really a revolutionary figure or particularly relevant to the event as a whole. You people are so insufferably arrogant your vision and imagination must be reality.
Rely in common sense comrade.
“Just believe the western propoganda”. I’m no comrade of yours you Hitlerite settler.
Lastly, on this segment of this documentary, Tank Man, these Asian students claim to not even recognize the famous “Tank Man” when asked.
I genuinely can’t believe a person can be this dumb. Did you ever consider the fact that Tank Man is completely irrelevant for history and it’s only a fucking image for propaganda? Why anyone knows about the image? Because is the image about the square that appears when people talk about the event. This guy is completely irrelevant.
Yeah ice killed a couple people and we are dealing with that.
The tanks are on their way to kill 2600 unarmed people.
Only a few hundred died, many were armed and murdered PLA officers (kicking off the millitary response), none in the square itself, and the tanks pictured are leaving the square where nobody died.
Only a few hundred died
Dude, you’re saying that as if it’s okay. Hundreds or even thousands die after clearing a protest, how is that ever supposed to place the CCP in a good light?
many were armed and murdered PLA officers (kicking off the millitary response)
Source? Because as far as I can find, the protests were nonviolent until the army was sent in to clear the square. When protestors blocked the army a standoff ensued, which was eventually forcefully broken as per the CCP’s orders. The army was initially sent in because the strikes weren’t ending and the government was not willing to meet the demands.
My favorite fed
A few hundred dead protesters is extremely better than being overthrown by the US, preventing that is actually really cool and does in fact make them look good
The protestors were heavily factionalised. They weren’t universally pro-US. The US was happy to foment dissent, but ultimately the protestors were still socialists and had not insignificant support within the CCP itself.
Cool story
Because as far as I can find, the protests were nonviolent until the army was sent in to clear the square. When protestors blocked the army a standoff ensued, which was eventually forcefully broken as per the CCP’s orders.
The people in the square left peacefully and without the use of violence. There was no “standoff” in the square. The violence occurred in other neighborhoods, not in the square itself. You can find contemporaneous Western media coverage confirming this, because there were a lot of Western media there at the time. It’s well documented. That’s why we say that the “Tiananmen square massacre” is a myth, because it wasn’t in Tiananmen square massacre and it wasn’t a “massacre.” The military didn’t kettle peaceful protesters into a square and indiscriminately mow them down and crush them under tanks.
I didn’t claim there was? The “standoff” happened on the way to the square, not the square itself, when protestors blocked the PLA from advancing.
Still, hundreds (up to 2600 according to historians) died.
Dude, you’re saying that as if it’s okay. Hundreds or even thousands die after clearing a protest, how is that ever supposed to place the CCP in a good light?
There’s a huge difference between “the CPC ran over 10,000 innocent schoolchildren in Tian’anmen square with tanks” and “riots around Beijing resulted in firebombings of PLA vehicles and lynchings of PLA officers, who then responded with force, resulting in a few hundred deaths in total.”
Here’s a pretty good overview. Two days prior to June 4th, unarmed officers were lynched and firebombed in their vehicles. That’s why the PLA was sent in to begin with, which then cascaded into rioters blocking the PLA’s advance and escalations into killings on both sides. It wasn’t an “even fight,” it was the PLA vs. rioters, but even still it was the rioters that struck first, hard.
That’s a pretty blatant misrepresentation of what happened though. This makes it sound like the rioters started the violence on June 2nd forcing a government response, but that’s not the case. The CCP had already declared martial law on May 20th and had mobilised 30 divisions. The PLA was first sent in at that time, but because the protestors blocked them they couldn’t advance into the city and were ordered to wait on the 24th.
On the 1st of June, two individual reports (the Li Peng report and the MMS report) were published within the Politburo, decrying US influences and advocating direct military action. The CCP decided that day that military action would be used against the protestors.
June 2nd saw an incident with a PAP jeep that inflamed tensions. But I can’t personally find a source claiming firebombings and lynchings at this time. The jeep incident was the trigger that made the students believe military action was at hand though. Only on June 3rd did tensions escalate further, when the PLA advanced into the city and clashed with protestors trying to repel them. This is when I can first find the protestors using molotov cocktails and trying to beat soldiers to death, but at the same time the PLA had opened fire with live, expanding ammunition on the protestors (so they certainly weren’t ‘unarmed’). From there it only escalated further of course. So the protestors were fighting in response to the PLA advancing into the city to break up the protest, not the other way around.
Martial Law is not the same as actual killings, moreover the Liberation News article is well-sourced. As for the killed soldiers, there are pictures of them (NSFL) if you really want to see proof.
Martial law is what mobilized the army, which you falsely claimed happened after protestors started killing unarmed PLA soldiers. I didn’t equivocate it to killings.
And of those killed soldiers, here’s what your own source says: https://xcancel.com/SebasdePeru/status/1533603901508820994#m
Killed for having murdered four protestors. Not so “unarmed” either then. Additionally, those pictures are from June 3rd/4th, which again is after the PLA was ordered to move in and when they started killing protestors if they refused to clear out. Obviously the protestors will attempt to defend themselves against such aggression.
Martial law was declared, and then rioters started killing unarmed PLA officers. This is what prompted the PLA’s response, the violent clashes started after martial law was declared, and rioters started killing officers. Secondly, the source says much of this happened on June 2nd, which backs up the Liberation School article and its sources. Thirdly, the idea that the officer had already murdered 4 people came from the people who killed him, not an outside verified source. In an event where we already know much has been mythologized, this single officer may or may not have been guilty, but was far from the only murdered officer.
I think you mean two million people
and we are dealing with that.
By throwing dildos at the concentration camps and dancing?
Well if we did Tianeman square style we would just have a bunch of idiots that supported it and called us terrorists against the government.
You know, exactly how you are doing right now in this comment I replied to about the citizens of China standing up to its oppressive government. Didn’t work out. They lost and Chinese government sympathizers blame the people who stood up for their beliefs.
Seems like if we did do something we are bloodthirsty CIA backed terrorists but if we dont do something we are just pussies throwing dildos eh?
I forget your stance are you for people standing up to the government or against it? Or just against people doing it to the chinese government huh?
And both pictures show off firsthand a brutal government dictatorship (in everything but name) that is actively going against the will of its people and stamping down boots on the throats of civilians who dare question or hesitate in the face of their rule.
stamping down boots on the throats of civilians who dare question or hesitate in the face of their rule.
Comrades, you ever notice how when communists write about things like this it reads like a history book and when libs write about things like it it reads like young adult fiction? These mfs think they’re giving a speech in a movie
The protestors in Tian’anmen were a mix of Maoist die-hards upset at Reform and Opening Up, and student protestors backed by the CIA that wanted to liberalize the economy. They didn’t have a consistent goal. Decades later, over 90% of the public in China support their government:
Because if they didn’t they were disappeared for re-education lol
If the Chinese people agree with you, they’re being honest. If the Chinese people disagree with you, they actually secretly agree with you but are too scared to say it.
Bro this is just political Niceguyism. “No dude she totally likes me and hates her boyfriend of 5 years, she’s just too afraid of him to show it. He’s probably abusive.”
No? Harvard studied this, it’s because the government consistently delivers on its ambitious promises in uplifting the lives of working people.
You ever see those workplace review things where it turns out almost everyone at the company is super thrilled with management and wouldn’t change a thing?
Or is it only you that can engage in whataboutism?
The pictures still show two shitty controlling governments bringing the boot down on the throats of their citizens who dare to get in their way or stand up for their “rights”
You have a hypothesis with no backing. Back up your hypothesis, or accept that the citizenry of China support it because it works really well and is getting better all the time. Obviously people would change a lot about China, the major difference is that they expect the government to bring about that change, rather than assuming it won’t.
Further, no, the rioters in Beijing were firebombing PLA vehicles and lynching officers before the PLA was sent in. That’s why hundreds died.
Oh yes the place where they had to install nets in factories to keep people jumping out has to have good ratings. I believe it.
Also no, I did provide sources. China itself doesn’t deny the use of those vans btw they would have to build an insane number of lethal injection rooms otherwise.
All of its been reported on by Reuters.
Here’s one I found immediately about the nets. I can find another one for the vans I’m sure but I’ll probably have that comment removed by mods too while they talk to me about “propaganda” and “censorship”
Ohhhh I see now that it is lemmy. Ml. Hahahahhaha ok yeah makes sense carry on.
Hey, notice how I didn’t lie about how my government is shit and oppresses its people? Its only one side that seems to do that.
People have reported on the execution vans, that’s just fake though. As for the suicide nets, the PRC has a lower suicide rate than the US, and lower than Taiwan, so not sure what your point is there.
Well they kinda have to or one of those murder vans shows up. A lot of doctors regularly get 100 percent of the vote. That must mean they were beloved dictators?
What on Earth are you talking about?
He is saying a lot of dictators have 100% approval ratings. Misspelled it as doctor.
And the “murder vans” is a reference to execution vans that China uses.
“Yunnan officials authorized the use of execution vans in March 2003 and the province deployed 18 vans in the same year. Zhao Shijie, president of the Yunnan Provincial High Court, said, “The use of lethal injection shows that China’s death penalty system is becoming more civilized and humane”. Amnesty International expressed concern that the use of execution vans could increase the use of executions. The Supreme People’s Court encouraged provinces to adopt execution vans in December 2003.[2]”
There is a lot of activity about the vans being talked about online I am surprised you haven’t heard of this before.
Execution vans aren’t a real thing, though. China does have the death penalty, but not in this comical way, same as PLA suicide helmets. I’ve seen the claim before, but it’s ridiculous to believe them. You can see that the sources in the Wikipedia article don’t even back up what is claimed.
As for the idea that “a lot of dictators have 100% approval ratings,” I don’t see how it matters. Fear of the possibility of something isn’t evidence of it happening.
Your evidence for the claim “Yunnan officials have started using execution vans at the behest of the Supreme People’s Court and Amnesty International is concerned” is…
…the Wikipedia pages for Yunnan, Amnesty International and the Supreme People’s Court.
Did you think people wouldn’t check?
Why is this in c/memes?
Here on .ml we can enjoy content past cat videos.
No way…. This is a bridge too far for me
Because repetition is an effective way of convincing people to accept a narrative, and meme channels tend to be more widely subbed than others.
I like how this comments sections is ml people fighting with ml people, as well as Chinese nationals fighting with Chinese nationals over what really happend.
An account existing on Lemmy.ml doesn’t make them a Marxist-Leninist.
I know lol, but it also doesn’t mean anyone who is opposing the meme isn’t one either.
I’ve seen my fair share of educated/intellectual people deny the circumstances of the Bengali genocide for decades until the Pakistani army went lunatic a couple of years ago and confirmed what was previously considered exaggerated fiction.
Tbf though, I’m fairly sure Tankman made it out alive without a scratch, but that overlooks the people who actually died in Tiananmen.
Not that the US is going to fare any better, especially with the empire beginning to crumble.
To be clear, nobody died in Tian’anmen square. The riots happened in various spots throughout Beijing.
i’m not a marxist and most of us aren’t; you should adjust your views to gain a full understanding of what’s happening here.
Cowbee is tankie supreme apparently. All they do is comment Chinese propaganda wherever they can. You won’t be getting through to them unfortunately.
I talk about communist theory and practice. I think “tankie supreme” is a very funny title, lol.
Dang I’m jealous of that title, I wanna be tankie supreme too
I saw a screenshot of someone labelling people “tankie” but cowbee is “tankie influencer” lol
I remember that! Also really funny. My haters are my biggest fans it seems, lol
Lessee it!
Just found out I got a sick as hell nickname, totally undeserved but I’ll take it lol
The other was taken before the murder of several civilians.
Only .ml you can encounter such degenerate brain rot
You can literally watch the videos of both encounters
Only fash.world blindly repeats imperialist imperialist propaganda
degenerate
Hitler particles detected, .world status verified
Tank Man was disappeared after this. A Reagan admin official claimed he was executed after this.
Some other guy claims he shared a prison cell with him and he was supposedly still imprisoned as of 2017.
The only people claiming that he wasn’t killed or arrested is the Chinese Communist Party.
/doubt
offering two contradictory statements isn’t proof of anything
So close to understanding the razor, but yet.
Go back to reddit
Why do so many of you believe the CCP is better than ICE
Because even Western reporters who were there debunk the myth of what happened.
As far as genocide, Sayragul Sauytbay (basically the sole source of “proof”), has also been debunked six ways til Sunday, and even admits that she hasn’t even witnessed these events firsthand. Gee, funny that the US/West lied about Vietnam, lied about Korea, Lied about Iraq, lied about Iran, lied about Cuba, lied about Venezuela, … literally genocided millions (with actual proof) using the Jakarta Method, coups, embargoes, sanctions, assassinations, color revolutions, etc. Surely they wouldn’t lie about China, riiiiight?
are you all bots?
We’re bots because we actually read less biased accounts of what happened instead of regurgitating western propaganda?
I haven’t been able to find one legitimate site confirming it was debunked. All the sites at the top of my search are .cn sites and I’m skeptical of those as they have a reason to be dishonest.
The best and most comprehensive resource I have seen so far is Qiao Collective’s Xinjiang: A Resource and Report Compilation. Qiao Collective is a group of Chinese diaspora living in the west, and they compiled an extremely comprehensive write-up of the entire background of the events, the timeline of reports, and real and fake claims. The majority of their sourcing is western, and they cite official Chinese government writing and white papers when relevant.
I also recommend reading the UN report as well as (especially) China’s response to it, which eclipses it in size and detail.These are the most relevant accusations and responses without delving into straight up fantasy like Adrian Zenz, Christian nationalist and professional propagandist for the Victims of Communism Foundation, does. Zenz’ work has been thoroughly discredited, yet is supported by western media for its utility in fearmongering. An example is lying about 8.7% of new IUDs as 80%, to back up claims of “forced sterilization,” from this chart:
I recommend you go through these resources.
Thank you, I’m incredibly skeptical but I will legitimately read these with an open mind.
I suggest you read with a fine-toothed comb, then.
Lemmy turning into a big propaganda machine always trying to pit us all against each other rage baiting Europeans vs Americans vs Asians vs etc. if we could all stop and smell the flowers we would be stronger.
lemmy was primarily a marxist space before reddit’s API update drove a bunch of you here. there’s no grand conspiracy or big plot to divide people on our part; we’re just talking about what we always have while liberals from reddit try to fling shit.
I came here not because of the API change…“you here” doesn’t apply to me. Sorry you don’t like my opinion!
Your opinion is stupid
Tank Man was disappeared after this
It must be so easy being an anti communist, you can just make up whatever unsourced claims you like and expect people to believe it
Some other guy
Oh well, if “some guy” said it…
So if China is so nice, what is the identity of the “Tank Man”? Why can’t we find him? It is like he “disappeared”.
Well, it is undisputed that the CPC censors all mentions of the 1989 Tiananmen Square protests and massacre. Both public and private - the US may lie, but private free speech is still allowed. So can we please stop pretending that China in its current form is not doing evil?
Both public and private
The local CPC deputies have broken into my house multiple times for mentioning it when talking politics with friends (sarcasm). You people are so unserious
From https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2025/05/what-is-the-tiananmen-crackdown/
Alliance vice-chairperson Chow Hang-tung and 25 activists were prosecuted in 2020 simply because they insisted on lighting candles in Victoria Park despite the government prohibiting the vigil that year, ostensibly on Covid-19 grounds. In 2021, after the police banned the vigil once again, Chow was arrested on 4 June after encouraging people on social media to commemorate the crackdown by lighting candles.
Ultimately, Chow was jailed for 22 months for taking part and inciting others to take part in an unauthorised assembly. She and fellow Hong Kong Alliance leaders Lee Cheuk Yan and Albert Ho have also been charged with “inciting subversion” under the National Security Law and all three face a maximum sentence of life imprisonment.
Firstly that’s public.
Secondly
for taking part and inciting others to take part in an unauthorised assembly
Thirdly amnesty famous for publishing the nayirah testimony without any factchecking or corroboration
Fourthly you Brits are really butthurt about losing your colony and your bootlickers being a shunned minority.
Amnesty always manufactures consent for shit, but assuming this is true, why would any government be okay with people commemorating an attempt to overthrow them? You’re so unserious
Some of us here have expiriance with communist regimes beyond simping them online.
But on a common sense level; you really believe a government which sends tanks onto unarmed student protest does not prosecute someone who attempts to block it?
I wouldn’t expect a Polish nationalist to have a good grasp on anything but “unarmed student protest” is an entirely misleading categorisation of a violent riot that brutally murdered multiple soldiers who were simply standing guard before the clashes broke out and who’s leaders did interviews specifically detailing their plans to incite massive violence and flee to America.
Look at the Wujek mine riot, miners were attacking militia with sharpened rebars and loudly threatening to lynch the captured militamen, but when single inexperienced detachment of militia which shouldn’t even been there opened fire (and despite entire chain of command from direct commander to minister Kiszczak and gen Jaruzelski absolutely forbidding this) it’s suddenly example of horrible martyrology and one of founding myths of comprador III RP.
Of course hundreds of workers being murdered in the prewar Poland and dozens (maybe hundreds) of thousands of social murders after 1989 are not mentioned ever.
Lol bold af to post this on ml.
To be clear this was also before the whole Uyghur thing!
Right, and one was taken before the murder of THOUSANDS of civilians. Those tanks and trucks full of soldiers opened fire on the crowds of students.
Damn dude being an anticommunist is so easy, you can just make shit up and as long as it FEELS right you can just say it with your whole chest, and proceed to ignore people who actually know what you’re talking about.
Fuckin sweet
Anyway, show me literally any evidence of a tank firing its weapons that day
The tanks shown were leaving the square, which was evacuated peacefully. Even wikipedia backs this up:
In 2011, three secret cables from the United States embassy in Beijing from the time of the events were leaked and published by WikiLeaks, all of which stated that there was no bloodshed inside Tiananmen Square itself.[185] Instead, they said Chinese soldiers opened fire on protesters in Beijing outside the square, around Muxidi station, as they fought their way from the west towards the centre.[185] A Chilean diplomat who had been positioned next to a Red Cross station inside the square told his US counterparts that he did not observe any mass firing of weapons into the crowds in the square itself, although sporadic gunfire was heard. He said that most of the troops who entered the square were armed only with anti-riot gear.[185][207]
Conflict between rioters and the PLA outside the square around Beijing resulted in ~250 deaths total, soldiers and rioters combined, and the violence was kicked off by rioters lynching and burning alive officers 2 days prior to clearing the square.
This person climbed on the hull of the tank but was taken down by others. So he was alive (at least at that moment). It was later where they opened fire on the civilians protesting. Not only civilians protesting, but they also fired on random people. Many people who were not the part of protests were also hit and died. No justice has been delivered to this day.
The tanks shown were leaving the square, which was evacuated peacefully. Even wikipedia backs this up:
In 2011, three secret cables from the United States embassy in Beijing from the time of the events were leaked and published by WikiLeaks, all of which stated that there was no bloodshed inside Tiananmen Square itself.[185] Instead, they said Chinese soldiers opened fire on protesters in Beijing outside the square, around Muxidi station, as they fought their way from the west towards the centre.[185] A Chilean diplomat who had been positioned next to a Red Cross station inside the square told his US counterparts that he did not observe any mass firing of weapons into the crowds in the square itself, although sporadic gunfire was heard. He said that most of the troops who entered the square were armed only with anti-riot gear.[185][207]
Conflict between rioters and the PLA outside the square around Beijing resulted in ~250 deaths total, soldiers and rioters combined, and the violence was kicked off by rioters lynching and burning alive officers 2 days prior to clearing the square.
evacuated peacefully… with tanks…
Okay.
And 250 deaths
Would you prefer I word it as “non-violently?” Nobody died on the square, that’s the point.
the other is an image of tanks leaving after murdering 1000+ unarmed students
Never happened. The square was evacuated peacefully, even wikipedia backs this up:
In 2011, three secret cables from the United States embassy in Beijing from the time of the events were leaked and published by WikiLeaks, all of which stated that there was no bloodshed inside Tiananmen Square itself.[185] Instead, they said Chinese soldiers opened fire on protesters in Beijing outside the square, around Muxidi station, as they fought their way from the west towards the centre.[185] A Chilean diplomat who had been positioned next to a Red Cross station inside the square told his US counterparts that he did not observe any mass firing of weapons into the crowds in the square itself, although sporadic gunfire was heard. He said that most of the troops who entered the square were armed only with anti-riot gear.[185][207]
Conflict between rioters and the PLA outside the square around Beijing resulted in ~250 deaths total, soldiers and rioters combined, and the violence was kicked off by rioters lynching and burning alive officers 2 days prior to clearing the square.
tbf no one knows whatever happened to Tank Man it’s heavily censored
To the point where no one, not even the chinese government knows who he is
The pro-china cucks are so funny lol. So far in the thread I saw:
- Yeah people died, but after 20 years of absolute police state, now polls show 90% approval!
- Yeah but America is also a police state so it’s fine for China to be a police state, checkmate
- Only a few hundred people died, not thousands. And some people may have been armed! So it’s fine to kill scores of people.
- The tanks were driving away and didn’t kill anyone this time
Like, just accept the country is a totalitarian police state and killing scores of people was an atrocity. Then talk about how:
- 17 of the top 20 research institutions are in China, and they’re responsible for more technological breakthroughs than any other country.
- China uplifted more human beings from poverty in a single generation than any nation has, ever
- China is basically our only hope for saving the human race from the impending climate apocalypse through its conversion to clean energy
- (At least until 2027 when they invade Taiwan) China doesn’t bomb and genocide other countries, despite a vastly more powerful military as compared to its neighbors
There’s lots to appreciate. But this sure as fuck ain’t it. You make yourselves look like retards trying to paper this over.
Only a few hundred people died, not thousands. And some people may have been armed! So it’s fine to kill scores of people.
“Some people” aka insurrectionists were not maybe armed.
These insurrectionists bombed and killed soldiers.Do you really think that if the Jan 6th tried to stay at the Capitol and would try to prevent the army from entering and also shooting at them that it would not have turned into a bloodbath?
What were these other soldiers supposed to do that are trained to fight and protect their country? Just stand there and take some more? What is the proper response according to you when a group of terrorists bombs a military convoy?
You edited your post so I’ll reply again: The test, which America and China both repeatedly fail, is having professional law enforcement and soldiers kill their own citizens. This is one of the most utter, final failures of government. There are plenty of options besides killing people, and when you take up arms and swear oaths to protect your country, and then kill citizens of your own country, you break your oath.
Your argument fails because there’s no need to actually intercede and halt protests. In the case of the pro-democracy movement crushed by the PLA in June 1989, martial law and attacks on protesters had begun en masse 2 weeks before the massacre. There was a steady escalation of violence leading up to the riots in early june. So the idea that the protestors “struck first” (even if that is a justification, which it isn’t, is false. The facts, which aren’t in dispute, were that the anti-corruption policies implemented to answer the complaints of the protestors were well-received, and further reforms were desired by everyone, not just the student protestors. Everyone except the local officials who were at risk of losing their positions by a government overhaul from authoritarianism to democracy.
The protest could have continued to be disrupted the way they already were before the massacre:
- Through wiretaps and arrests
- Through planted dissenters sowing chaos in the student’s ranks
- Through rubber bullets + tear gas, and other nonlethal methods
Instead, even though 300,000 people were protesting that period, the actions of an interim commander who acted on poor discipline and leadership, directly lead to at least hundreds, and possibly thousands, of his own people, in a small section of the city. That is a spectacular failure, and the end of a certain degree of human autonomy in China.
This is coming from someone who actually thinks China is leading the world in many ways. I do genuinely believe that China is actually less corrupt than many other nations, and the high degree of social cohesion in-country is something that gives them strength. Like I said in my first post: lots to admire, but this ain’t it.
The protest could have continued to be disrupted the way they already were before the massacre:
Through wiretaps and arrests Through planted dissenters sowing chaos in the student’s ranks Through rubber bullets + tear gas, and other nonlethal methods
A) There was no “massacre”
B) We have no idea if these tactics weren’t also used, and
C) Let’s be honest, if they had done these things and it had worked, you people would never shut the fuck up about that either.
This is just the other bullet points again! I’m sure if more armed rebels entered the capital it would have been incredibly messy and people would have died. And killing a ton of people, regardless of why, is a failure of government. Conflating one violent protest with another and then saying “America Bad so China Fine” is inane.
Yes dude this is what is so fucking wild to me these idiots pick shit you can easily and verifiably fucking check and see is complete bullshit.
The us does it too, for sure but I’m quick to call that shit out when I see it so why the fuck am I wrong for calling another governments fucked up shit? The ruling class fucking sucks in all the major superpowers of the world - facts are facts. China, USA, Russia all those governments are brutal as fuck in different ways.
However, the shit about China saving the world is for sure dude and that is something I wish would be pushed more because the USA is hellbent on burning the last piece of coal until the very last day of humanity’s existence. They even called the meeting about ending fossil fuels “dangerous” like what the fuck.
The Chinese government is still paying their scientists to fucking_do something about it_ and figure something out at least. They are trying and I respect that. That is for all of humanity. And I agree it would probably gain a lot more support if points like that were focused on more, because those are true.
