Yeah, both sides are the same. One would have continued benefits for the poor while the other is using ICE as a WMD and protecting pedos. Really identical when you think about it.
You’re right. They are both the same. Harris did have her own crypto coin I believe and she was a pedo’s best friend(because of the children) there for a while. I couldn’t believe it when VP Harris pressured colleges to ignore America’s past and pushed all government agencies to remove DEI and to help ensure white supremacy in all federal areas. I think she was about to challenge gay marriage and target all trans rights while alienating all of our NATO and non NATO allies with personal insults and tarrifs. Oh yeah, Harris was huge on tarrifs. I forgot how nothing would be different had blue won. Thank you for reminding me!
She has her ows list of atrocities to account for, but most importantly, she’s pro-israel, and pro-genocide.
deleted by creator
The KHIVE is here to correct the record on her prison slave labor scandals, defense of white supremacist cops, disproportionate jailing of black people, and staunch support for Israel.
The point isn’t to defend her now, it’s to point out that it would have been much better if she won over trump. It’s to point out that If you didn’t vote for her, you are at fault for Trump’s win. It’s to point out that unless enough people figure out that concept real soon, we will lose the ability to gain some control in the midterms and we will probably lose our democracy for the foreseeable future.
“Let me mention a few negligeable differences like crypto and ignore all the blatant similarities which actually matter”
Ok how about the genocide in Ukraine that Trump single handedly lengthened and made far worse by stopping defensive weapons to Ukraine? The largest and most deadly conflict for Russia or Ukraine since WW2 and Trump loves the brutal murderous genocidal maniac in Moscow. 1 million casualties and hundreds of thousands of deaths with the theft of children to Russify the area… genocide.
A genocide is not when Russia kills mostly soldiers. War crimes sure, but not everything is genocide.
Also long range missiles are not “defensive weapons”
Those are small differences to you? Wow.
Anyway, this infighting is exactly what the shit-ass gop wants. Nice.
You advocating that people should vote for the duopoly is exactly what the duopoly wants.
Notice I didn’t say that either. Good reading skills, chump.
You mean champ. Or chimp?
I was absolutely shocked when Harris denied the outcome of the general election and encouraged a mob of her supporters to break into the capitol building in an attempt to change the result
The Trump term has literally seen a truce to the genocide in Palestine. This isn’t an endorsement of Trump, he’s a fascist piece of shit, but to those constantly bickering about genocide being worse under Trump, where are you now?!
What truce? There was a cease fire that lasted a couple of days in Gaza. No one actually believes he ended the war. Israel is still happily bombing children over the last few days.
Trump has purposefully made the genocide in Ukraine far worse by holding back defensive weapons for months. How many thousands of Ukrainian civilians needlessly died at the hands of Trump that didn’t need to die? The battle line should be much closer to Russia and immovable but Trump likes Putin so that didn’t happen.
No one actually believes he ended the war
There is no war, there is an ongoing genocide of Palestinians by the settler colony of Israel.
And yes, the genocide very much didn’t end unfortunately, and it won’t end until Isntreal is driven out of the region. But it has been ameliorated. By all accounts, dem supporters constantly were ranting about how “not voting for Kamala worsens the genocide”, and this is, factually, not what we’re seeing.
Trump has purposefully made the genocide in Ukraine far worse
There isn’t genocide in Ukraine, there is an inter-imperialist war going on in Ukraine. Using the label “genocide” to every conflict is very harmful to people like Palestinians who are actively being starved en-masse and kept out of reach of basic medicine, healthcare and even fucking drinking water.
“There isn’t a genocide in Ukraine.”
This is a Russian misinformation talking point.
- children being stolen and russified
- Putin himself stating Ukraine is not a real country and Ukrainians are not a real culture of people.
- Targeting civilians (hospitals, schools, retirement homes).
- Multiple instances of massacres like Bucha where hundreds of civilians and prisoners were executed. Not accidentally bombed. They were bound and executed.
ICC has issued an arrest warrant for Putin himself for the abduction of Ukrainian children.
Some of the countries that have officially labeled Russia’s brutal invasion as a genocide include Ireland, Iceland, France, and Canada.
Some of the countries that have officially labeled Russia’s brutal invasion as a genocide include [list of geopolitical enemies of Russia]
France can’t even fucking recognize the state of Palestine until like a week ago, and now they’re authorities in genocide? Fuck them.
As for your points list:
#1 goes mostly from claims by the Ukrainian government. It is true that Russia has extracted children from the warzone and it is true that in some cases these children have been sent to adoptive families in Russia, which I heavily condemn, but it’s not a generalized thing and most confirmed extracted children have been returned eventually. The official numbers by the Ukrainian government aren’t confirmed by any investigative journalism and the invaded Ukrainian state has obvious motivations to claim abduction of Ukrainian children and violations of human rights. The Russian government makes similar claims of forced de-Russification of ethnic Russians in Donbas to justify its invasion of Ukraine, which I hope you don’t take seriously because it’s obviously state propaganda.
#2 A statement doesn’t make a genocide.
#3 Civilian deaths in the Ukrainian war, by any metric you want to use, are contained compared to any imperialist war carried out by the west. Civilian death ratio in the unlawful and horrifying invasion of Iraq was comparably much higher and it wasn’t a genocide in my opinion (probably not in yours either). However horrifying the invasion of Ukraine is, it responds to patterns of war between nations, not of genocide attempts against a population.
#4 Isolated instances of war crimes don’t imply a generalized intent to massacre civilians of a given ethnicity. War crimes are horrible and the perpetrators should be brought to justice, but again, the scale you bring of “hundreds” doesn’t respond to genocidal goals. Massacres of civilians take place in many wars (see Vietnam, Libya…) and are war crimes, but not every war crime is genocide.
Please, do not dillute the meaning of the word “genocide”. It’s meant to carry an extremely heavy connotation of attempt of total extermination of an ethnicity and culture, and throwing it around lightly is an injury to people suffering from it.
There isn’t genocide in Ukraine
When Russia started relocating Ukrainian children into Russian families, that made it a coordinated effort to eliminate a people, which makes it a genocide.
You mean when they fulfilled their obligations under international law to move children away from active war zones?
Fucking monsters, they didn’t even put a wall of them in front of their weapons like true humanitarians in Ukraine.
After 2 years of insisting, Ukraine provided list of 339 names of missing children of which 161 were found living with parents in Germany. The entire “kidnapped children” take is pure atrocity propaganda.
On the other side, in 2014-2022 Ukraine killed 15000 people in Donbas and forced millions more to migrate. THIS is considtent with UN definition of genocide.
Yeah, you’re spouting Putin propaganda and underselling the kidnappings by tens of thousands. But that’s why we check what instance we’re in before we believe anything, right?
Yeah sure everything you don’t like is Putin personal propaganda, i wish you swift and hard crash with reality.
Most of the claims of relocation of Ukrainian children to Russian families come from the government of Ukraine, not from independent investigative journalism. The Ukrainian government has obvious reasons to do this atrocity propaganda. The Russian government itself justified the start of the war on similar grounds, arguing that Russian ethnics in eastern Ukraine were being genocided by Ukraine through forced Ukrainization and the banning of Russian language. I don’t take the Russian government seriously when it makes such claims because I haven’t seen much independent journalism confirming it, I apply the same reasoning to the claim of Ukrainian children being kidnapped en-masse and forcibly Russified.
As far as I know, there are only a handful of independently confirmed cases of Ukrainian children being sent to adoptive families in Russia, and most children evacuated by the Russian military have been returned to their families in Ukraine. There aren’t many cases of either because, as you may expect, in an attrition war in which the movements of the frontline are slow, there are very few children near the frontlines.
Quick side note, thanks for helping me identify so many Russian influenced accounts, should make my lemmy experience better.
I’m here for the comments 🍿
This thread is being targeted by a lot of no-content “correct the record” fediverse accounts, upvoting pro-genocide US democratic party and Israeli talking points. Please report them so we can ban them ASAP.
Thank you to all the posters below doing great work debunking them.
Your opinion is not shared by all, which should be obvious.
Ah, but the great thing about Communist jokes is that everyone gets them.
“YOURE A BOT!!!”
Some mf whose only posts are US corporate news and comments are 95% spreading the reddit lib bullet points
Even if I (non-us citizen) agree with the sentiment, I still think OP is a POS. Why? Check his profile. Fucking russian apologist.
.ml
What did you expect?
They are both bad, but the concept of equivilence is mind-numbingly stupid.
I legitimately think even Eric Trump is smarter than the people who believe this.
I touch grass for one full day and miss this thread? Oh well…
At least you took a break, I bet it was starting to smell in there. Might have been your first in a whiiiiiile!
Hey hey don’t start with excuses. Russian/CCP bots don’t need to touch grass!
Oof, you caught me! lol
This kind of false equivalency is how you end up with Trump.
It’s perfectly fine to dislike both, but if you’re forced to choose between oatmeal with bugs in it and a shit sandwich, you don’t huff and protest the vote, because turn your Definitely eat a shit sandwich.
Kinda crazy how democrats now are just like: “Yeah, I eat a plate of shit. I don’t like it, but they told me that was the only option. So I did it, I’m proud of it, and anyone else should be ashamed to not be eating shit like me.”
not everyone wants to me a Marxist
And they’re only pretending that they don’t like the taste.
Democrats are the oatmeal with bugs in it,Trump is the shit sandwich - clarifying on the off chance you’re just confused and not willfully ignorant.
Nah it is more like. We all have been eating shit but majority thought it is steak. Lets all eat super mega shit so that majority will start to recognize.
It’s kind of funny, that democrats would rather eat bug infested cereals over a shit sandwich, when they could also push for cereals to be actually clean.
Tells you a lot about those people.
If you make me eat shit or cockroaches, I’d rather leave, thanks.
Both are shit sandwiches. Trying to use analogy to obfuscate willing participation in genocide, perpetuation of imperialism, brutalization of immigrants, etc doesn’t actually erase material reality.
Organize.
Yup, they’re both the same thing, as long as you ignore the evidence of your eyes, ears and heart.
Jesus Christ it’s like you’ve never hear the expression that the perfect is the enemy of the good.
It’s almost like 2 genocidal fascists can’t be considered “good” to begin with.
It’s almost like ignoring everything about a person except 1 aspect of them makes you too ignorant to talk about it.
Go back to Reddit where your lack of critical thinking skills will help you fit in.
I’m not ignoring everything except one aspect, though. Both are genocidal, and both serve the interests of the US Empire above all-else, and as such they share far more in common than not. I’m not ignorant, and you can take your faux-superiority back. I’ve been here far longer than you have, telling me to go back to Reddit doesn’t make any sense. I’m a communist, the devs are communists, and a lot of communists are on Lemmy after various subreddits like r/GenZedong, r/TheDeprogram, and r/ChapoTrapHouse got banned. What I say fits in here.
I’m not pretending America is the best country, or Harris would be the best for the world.
I have 0 interest in Defending her, but claiming they’re the same with a straight face is fucking laughable. America would be a better country internally and on the global stage with her in charge, by any metric that isn’t “burn all capitalism down”.
Here’s an easy one - would Harris have sent a citizen to CECOT without a trial? Obviously not, because she’s demonstrably different from Trump, like any 3 year old could determine.
The US Empire is the world’s worst country. It’s the biggest exporter of genocide and terror, and the world’s biggest plunderer. Harris would maintain that exact same brutal system, domestically and internationally. It’s not hard to be better than them. Yes, Harris would send people to CECOT without trial, every imperialist president has done acts like that.
Chill out with the calling everyone to your left a child or a Russian bot, etc. It’s the peak of liberalism.
She sent a transwoman to mens prison, who got raped and joked about it.
You’re pathetically trying to defend this evil ghoul:Under her jurisdiction, in “progressive” San Francisco, 56% of all inmates in SF jails were black, along with 40% of all arrests (Only 5.8% of the population is black). Ignores police brutality, protected 14 of her officers who were caught sending extremely racist text messages. Oversaw San Francisco’s felony conviction rate rising from 52% to 67% in only 3 years.
As part of her tough on crime approach she assigned senior prosecutors to misdemeanors like graffiti and vandalism, tripling the number of cases brought to trial. After a federal judge orders California to expand prison releases to reduce crowding, her office argued in court that if forced to release these inmates early, prisons would lose an important labor pool. Spent years jailing disproportionately black nonviolent cannabis users while opposing taking cannabis off DEA’s list of most dangerous substances and literally laughing at the idea of legalizing it multiple times, even as her Republican opponent ran to the left of her on the issue. She then tried to pander by admitting to smoking herself despite prosecuting others, but got her story all wrong. Drug convictions under her office soared, convicting more people of marijuana possession than her predecessor (she also admitted to smoking marijuana) 2 Laughs about threatening parents with jailtime for truancy. 2. The stories of several mothers she jailed. Pushed a law that forced schools to turn over undocumented students to ICE. Opposed reforming California’s three-strikes law, which is the only one in the country to impose life sentences for minor felonies and incarcerates black people at 12x the rate as white people, three different times, even while her Republican opponent supported reform. Tried to deny a transgender inmate healthcare and endangered trans women by forcing them into mens prisons, leading to the rape and torture of at least one trans inmate. Appealed a judge ruling that the death penalty was unconstitutional and won on a technicality, resulting in continued executions. Supports the controversial DNA search technique that can be used on people even if they’ve not been charged with a crime. Supported the discriminatory practice of cash bail in court, until 2016. Protected serial child rapists by refusing to prosecute in the Catholic Church sex abuse scandal. Lied about her state’s solitary confinement to block a suit by inmates, claiming there was none in California when there were about 6,400 victims of the practice, which is considered torture. Opposed legislation that would require independent investigation of fatal police shootings despite criticism from many civil rights advocates including California’s Legislative Black Caucus. Opposed statewide implementation of police body cameras and ignored police brutality, multiple officers raping a teenager, and other officers sharing racist and homophobic messages, despite multiple requests from the public defender. Stood by silently as $730 million was spent on moving inmates to for-profit private prisons.And as cherry on the cake fully complicit in a horrible genocide, and you want to claim she would hypothetically be better in the future? LOL
You really disgust me. You are not better but worse.
It’s the hypocrisy that bothers me most, at least one side has the balls to say they’re fascists.
Unlike you cowardly worms pretending to be good while being absolute scum.
Hope you all get slow cancer.
I’m not ignoring everything except one aspect, though. Both are genocidal, and both serve the interests of the US Empire above all-else,
Hardly. Democrats made it clear that they care about netanyahu’s political career above all else.
The purpose of supporting Israel is so that it secures US interests in the region.
Jesus Christ it’s like you’ve never hear the expression that the perfect is the enemy of the good.
No one’s buying that democrats are “the good” anymore. They’re not even “the adequate.”
Libs are almost pathologically reliant on analogies even in the simplest of scenarios because talking about things as they really are is often indefensible and would necessitate saying the most ghoulish and monstrous shit
Yep, it’s all smoke and mirrors.
This kind of false equivalency is how you end up with Trump.
The fact that there’s no discernible difference between the parties (or, worse, that Trump rhetorically can outflank Dems from the popular left) should cause Democrats to soul-search and come back with a better political strategy. Instead, we just get this dogmatic insistence that Liz Cheney and Michael Bloomberg are better options than Donald Trump, so you have to go pound pavement in the 100° weather knocking doors, begging friends and neighbors over the phone, and dipping into your kids’ college funds to “donate till it hurts” in an effort to get them elected.
It’s perfectly fine to dislike both
It clearly is not. That’s the fucking problem. Telling people “go eat dogshit because its tastier than horseshit” and then bitching when your shit stand can’t break even is the root of the problem.
Time and time and time again, liberal Democrats run away from the popular candidates in favor of the candidates that can raise the most money. Time and time and time again, these candidates lose to Republicans who are raising money from the exact same evil assholes.
And when we finally fucking see a populist start winning in a bright blue city like NYC, you get the liberal media leadership saying this shit on national television.
Bill Maher raises concerns over Mamdani’s Ugandan citizenship on ‘Real Time’
It’s Birtherism all over again.
Man, reading comprehension is none of your strong points is it. I won’t waste too much time, but if you think Kamala Harris and Trump were equivalent you weren’t worth talking to in the first place.
if you think Kamala Harris and Trump were equivalent
Obviously they’re different. One’s got a big “D” next to her name and climbed into her California Senate seat through Jerry Brown’s bed sheets. The other one was a billionaire mega-donor to Hillary Clinton’s Senatorial and Presidential Primary campaigns, and hung out with her husband on trips down to Epstein Island. Also he became a Republican a few weeks after Obama won the Presidency.
And I imagine if I was as full of and sure of myself as you I’d also spout this kind of nonsense which, rather obviously, fails to answer the question.
If Harris were president right now, would we have gestapo roaming the streets, or Nazi ghouls mentioning plenary authority? How many felony’s is Harris currently carrying, is she an adjudicated rapist?
It’s like all it takes to counter your bullshit is eyes and ears.
I know you won’t answer the question and you’ll go off on some other tangent, as long as you know in your heart you’re spouting bullshit.
I’d also spout this kind of nonsense
What you’re doing is called “Denialism”. You don’t want to accept that Donald Trump was a staunch friend, financial supporter, and NYC powerbroker working on behalf of the Democratic Party for decades. So instead of facing this reality and what it means about the state of the party, you’re going to cover your ears and pretend it didn’t happen.
If Harris were president right now, would we have gestapo roaming the streets, Nazi ghouls mentioning plenary authority, or giant corporations settling with the FCC to curry favor?
As she seemed intent on continuing the policies of the prior administrations, the answer is clearly “Yes”. We had gestapo doing their dirty work all through the American Southwest going back to the Polk Administration. Bush created ICE, Obama expanded ICE, Trump expanded ICE, Biden expanded ICE, and Kamala Harris campaigned on a platform of anti-immigration that would require her to expand ICE.
Would we have goons like Steven Miller and Curtis Yarvin ranting about unitary executives and divine right of kings under a Harris Administration? Absolutely. Would they be operating in friendly Republican gubernatorial cabinets and think tanks and Congressional offices? Absolutely. Would they be setting national policy through the courts and the legislature and red state executive offices? Absolutely. If Republicans still commanded Congress, would they be authoring national policy that President Harris eventually signed into law? Abso-fucking-lutely.
Would Larry Ellison and Bob Iger and Satya Nadella be kicking back tens of millions of dollars to Republican allies via “settlements”? Would Citadel and JP Morgan be bribing politicians with large purchases of shitcoins to get around campaign contribution limits and other anti-corruption laws? 100% guaranteed. They were doing this shit before Trump took office. Why would they stop now?
Your problem isn’t that these fascist policies exist. Your problem is that they’ve breached “containment” in Red States. Now it’s not just a Texas problem or a Florida problem. Its an Everybody problem. You can’t just ignore the fascism anymore. You can’t say “Those fuckers down south are getting what they deserve”.
Now you’re down in the shit here with the rest of us. Welcome to hell, asshole.
Oh, you went the “they’re the same” route. I’m so sorry, your opinion is too incorrect for me to care. It’s adorable how you mentioned that Mille would still be alive and talking, as if my point wasn’t would he be a part of the admin or not. You can’t answer a straight question with a straight answer without being wrong.
Because you said, with a straight face, Harris would have masked Gestapo roaming the streets.
If you love Russian money so much, move their traitor.
Brother, you’ve got a worse case of brain worms than some Kennedys I could name.
You’re not “forced” to do anything.
There are 3rd parties as always. You can find reasons and excuses not to vote for them but that’s all on you.
Glad you ended up with Trump.
Fascists and fascist-lite voters deserve it.The problem here is structural. For president especially a 3rd party candidate is nothing more than a spoiler. It’s less so if they can win for the house or senate. I would whole heartedly agree with you if the Us had a parliamentary or ranked choice. But we don’t and until we do; with the demo crates it’s a slightly more likely, then just vote for the least fascist that has a chance to win. Use your 3rd party vote in the primaries.
The US Empire will never pass ranked choice voting in a manner that allows for systemic change. The point of the political system is to perpetuate the economic system, and fixing the problems with society requires advancing to socialism and leaving capitalism behind.
a 3rd party candidate is nothing more than a spoiler.
And there we go with the excuses.
In non-banana republics with a normal political landscape and populations with spines there have been parties and candidates scoring 1-2 percent, then 10, then 60. Or the other way.
That’s how elections work, and nobody of those initial 1-2% voters gave up.
Since outside the US, nobody propagates that defeatist BS.But OC, this election is “the most important election in history and in our lifetime” so now is not the time to rdo such crazy things as not vote for a duopoly you supposedly don’t like but have since the beginning of your miserable country.
You have only yourself to blame and deserve zero sympathy.
On the contrary.
You’re like an arsonist that constantly burns houses and now cries because he managed to set his own home on fire.
Well burn baby burn.
What a juvenile take that doesn’t take into account reality at all. From Reddit are you? Go back.
right simpleton.
Go back to your interpretative dance with kibbutz Bernie
This kind of false equivalency is how you end up with Trump.
Democrats needed to do more to differentiate themselves. But they’re still stuck in 1992 and think that if they just triangulate with fascists and treat their own base as hostages, that they’re entitled to victory.
With democrats at the (wheel?). Its the same trolley, the same track and the same people on it.
But they mostly abide by a legal speed limit and in general go much slower.
Sometimes they get to a full stopt and get out to clear some people manually to get back going.
The gop sees this and cries out that these slow speed limits are the problem. Go fast, get there quicker.
Neither party wants to talk seriously about where we’re going.
Neither wants to stop.
in general go much slower
Tell that to Palestinians, the truce has been implemented famously not during democrat rule.
Come back down to planet earth my man.
What are you talking about? How is the genocide under Trump any worse than it was during Democrats??
Yep. C’mon back down.
I for one am able to sum the accumulated damage between the two choices. Sucks not being able to think systemically I guess.
Israel has been violating the truce non-stop.
They never had any intention on ending the genocide, and Trump and the rest of the GOP never had any intention of brokering a real truce.
You’re a fucking idiot. Get off X and join those of us living in reality for a change
The only reason there is a “truce” is cause the Trump regime causes so much chaos they think they can get away with a hypernormalized fake truce.
Also Trump does not care one bit about what happens in reality as long as he believes that people believe him to be successful. Towards BN he is nothing but a useful fool.
Most media channels are happy to stop reporting about this cause it was getting old but the war and famine are going on unchanged.
The only reason there is a “truce” is cause the Trump regime causes so much chaos they think they can get away with a hypernormalized fake truce
So an amelioration of genocide is insufficient to you? Good, it’s insufficient to me too, that’s why I suggest voting against democrats too
Can you explain you reasoning because It just sounds like you fell for hypernormalization big time.
Just to make things clear. The Genocide is still ongoing. Trump won last time and the biggest difference it made is a classic trick got deployed to manage public perception of what the media thinks is going on.
I repeat voting against democracts does not remove any of the issues, we are just more Frequently gaslighted against forming resistanc under Trump
The best strategy to move away from capitalism with the least bloodshed is to have people need to vote democrat during elections and then instantaneously organize mass protest against them after they win.
How are we more gaslighted against resistance with Trump? People are mobilizing in much higher numbers now, and they were quite literally shutting their ears during the Kamala campaign not to hear the names of genocide victims.
FIY
Part of why Trump won is because the majority of people loath the democrats for their blatant support of Israel. Even Bernie took a big popularity hit because of it. I am not sure where you get the perception that the people mobilising now were somehow ignorant of genocide before.
We are gaslighted against resistance because media is getting flooded with scandals and misinformation to be upset about, making it harder to unite because everyone has a different priority issue.
The no kings protest is getting people outside because many people are realising there is a major issue which deserves priority, getting the dictator out the peoples house.
You seem to confuse these people as belonging to the same groups as the weirdo democrat fans that show up to their events but its a feature by design of a two party system that the majority of voters dislike and loath the party they vote for.
Verifiably Reality is AIPAC funds both parties and both support muslim genocide, towards the Palestinian people there is no effective difference.
Also verifiable, the gop created a blueprint for turning the US in a literal fascist dictatorship, which they have been executing.
And they’re only going slower so they can keep going longer
Shit none of them talk about where theyre at. The bleeding edge of late stage capitalism.
If you have to vote between a candidate who wants to build 5 concentration camps and another candidate who wants to build one. You vote for the candidate that only wants to build only one concentration camp. Sure, both candidates are really bad, but one is considerably worse.
Therefore, we must still vote for the lesser of two evils. Not voting at all because both sides bad is how democracy dies, especially when democracy itself is under attack right now.
If you have to vote between a candidate who wants to build 5 concentration camps and another candidate who wants to build one. You vote for the candidate that only wants to build only one concentration camp.
Well it’s a good thing that we didn’t have that binary choice then. My ballot had a few options, some of them even opposing concentration camps, so I got to vote against them.
I would vote a third party if it doesn’t just help the right win. If only we had ranked choice voting instead of the electrol college, then we could crub the 2 party system. Unfortunately, in the US, it’s either red team or blue team because until you can change the hearts and minds of millions of people, then it’s always going to be one of them.
because until you can change the hearts and minds of millions of people, then it’s always going to be one of them.
You’re admitting to being one of the millions of people that votes and therefore legitimises the construction of concentration camps.
You’re a fascist.
I mean, I believe nixus was talking about voting third party, which here in America is just another way of abstaining to vote. The concentration camp example was just to point out that to say one bad candidate against an objectively worse candidate doesn’t automatically mean they’re both equally as bad. I regret using concentration camps as an example though. Perhaps a better example would be if you had the choice of voting for either Benito Mussolini or Bill Clinton. Both candidates are bad, but if I vote for one of them, am I in the wrong to make sure Mussolini doesn’t win by voting for Bill Clinton?
The concentration camps are a perfect example. No one’s saying both sides are the exact same. They’re saying they both serve US imperialism. Case and point: one side wants 5 concentration camps, the other thinks that’s a little too much and we should settle for 1.
If you want to build concentration camps you’re a fascist. If you’re okay with a party wanting to build concentration camps or can look past it you’re a fascist. You wouldn’t accept someone in the 1930s saying “yeah what the nazis are doing with the Jews is bad but have you seen their treatment of animals? I’ll vote for them but I’m no Nazi.”
So, what do you suggest I do then as an alternative to voting in this scenario? I suppose I could spill the blood of the politicians that want to build concentration camps, but once again unless I change the minds of millions of people and start a full blown civil war, then the bloodshed will be pointless. I could also move away from America, but that’s assuming I could even afford to do that let alone be able to do it legally. The only power I have as an American citizen as of now is to vote. That’s the only power I have. Protesting will eventually just get me arrested or murdered once Trump completes his power grab.
You have more power than just voting every 4 years lmao. Get organised and start interacting with like minded people and get other people on your side. Every 4 years there’s 1540 days where you could be fighting fascism and you’re only doing it for 1.
The US is not and has never been a democracy
Oh, you’re right. My mistake. I guess I’ll just stop voting or even protesting then :/
Lol cry about it
If you have to vote between a candidate who wants to build 5 concentration camps and another candidate who wants to build one
So you support China in their liberation of Tibet from feudal serfdom? You support the Soviet Union destroying Nazism despite the excesses made in the gulag years? Or do you only extend this courtesy to capitalist imperialist regimes?
Obviously not. I don’t support building concentration camps in general, and China is a bad example since there’s no opposing party in Chinq. Admittedly, the example I gave was a bit on the extreme side. Regardless, I still disagree that if both sides are bad then they automatically are equalivent and thus voting is pointless as the meme seems to imply.
If Harris had won the 2024 election, do you honestly think she would be mass deporting immigrants without a trial, starting a trade war with China, attempt to cut funding for FEMA, etc? Sure, I’ll give you that she would have been content with the genocide in Gaza and would have been propping up the capitalist status quo. However, is that truly equilvent to what Trump has done in just his first year of his second term?
If Harris had won the 2024 election, do you honestly think she would be mass deporting immigrants without a trial, starting a trade war with China, attempt to cut funding for FEMA, etc?
Of course, look at her predecessor. Obama massively increased ICE, deportations, and did a pivot to asia.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but wasn’t the senate controlled by the right? Wasn’t it them that pushed for mass deportations?
I suppose you do have a point though, Harris wouldn’t need to be the only one who wins to make an actual difference, even if she would have just upheld the status quo that led to the rise in fascism. Still would have preferred that over what Trump is doing atm
Your willingness to only engage in lesser-evilism with western genocidal regimes is very telling.
I think that’s a very reductionist opinion that ignores @pirate2377@lemmy.zip trying to honestly interact with you.
Stop being a prick, it doesn’t get you anywhere.
Sadly, western genocide will happen REGARDLESS of who I vote for, yeah. So, what do you propose I do about it other than protest and likely get arrested by ICE in a couple years for it? Attempt to sail aid to the people in Gaza and die along with them? I suppose it would preferable than live in a fascist America, but I have people who need me alive as of now.
I suggest you don’t engage in lesser evilism with the west if you’re not willing to do with with geopolitics. Or if you’re willing to do it, then supoort China in the international geopolitics.
More like…
The lever can reduce the speed of the trolley depending on which way you turn it, but regardless the trolley will gradually accelerate either way.
Terminally online leftist type shit
No one owes the Democratic Party their vote. To some people genocide is about the worst thing that anyone can do and the Democrats did it.
Yeah! Let’s all vote mauve! That’s an option right? Teal? Aquamarine? So many choices!
In Poland last election saw 17 parties and 43 independents in sejm, but all of them are neoliberal fash ghouls.
Furthermore: how many different parties are in the EU? How many EU countries are rising GDP expenditure in military to 5%? Democracy under capitalism is an illusion
Ok then, what should people do? Easy to criticize, but hard to find answers.
Join PSL and DSA and do not vote until they follow through with demands, both sides continue genocide and war on a grand scale
This does nothing but help the GOP, who are openly bragging about installing a dictator.
This assumes the USA is a democracy at the federal level. Where votes by people matter.
Many states use election machines, owned by oligarchs, whose operations are a closed book and are not regulated. Coincidentally those states, both red and blue, fail tests approved by the United Nations to detect tampering of votes.
Those states make the other states, that actually pass the tests, irrelevant.
What makes democracy, in the USA, unable to curb the even the very gross problems today is not the people doing the cheating.
But it is the people who refuse to call the cheating out (by addressing the real issues), and more important the majority of citizens who absolutely do not see this as a problem. It’s only when this is addressed can the actual issues of a real democracy be looked at.
Even then, real reform is hard to do in a democracy. Especially one so large and out of control as the nation we see now. So any reform has to be not using the ballot box.
A boycott actually could help.
They do not care if you do not vote. Actually getting you not to vote is their stated goal and they have spent decades and millions of dollars specifically trying to make it harder for you to vote.
Republican efforts to suppress voting and the democrat “get out the vote” initiatives have much in common.
In some states voting matters, in most it does not. And federally it does not.
Seen in this context both efforts are a type of grifting and scam. No different than other political rabble rousing.
Pretensions USA is a democracy makes reform that much harder. And both parties do this well
