Also you protect them from online bullying by putting them in a situation that definitely could get them bullied irl? Like ha your parents dont even let you have snapchat they see your daughter as immature compared to them

Oh boy, this has been fun… I never said I had banned my kids from all SM for all time. I was just pointing out the opportunity for a fediverse project.

Some of you are clearly not parents. You can be on the permissive side of parenting style but that doesn’t mean you open the entire internet wide open when they hit 13.

She laughed through the entire powerpoint presentation. She thought it was a funny way to bring it up. We never said “no.” We told her she had valid points and lets keep discussing. She just turned 15 and this is the first time she asked for access.

And if anyone is wondering, we Ok’d IG because friend group was there too and moving off of Snap because of the number of creeps.

I’m definitely banning them from Lemmy though, lol

I’m not a parent (and I’m glad I don’t have to think about this problem myself). However, I’ve worked at a company that specialised in filtering internet services with many parents using it to protect their kids. I’ve also talked to plenty of people whose parents used to deny them whatever app the kids were on at the time. I can tell you that many kids will install apps and create accounts eventually, whether you permit them or not. I’ve seen the ingenious workarounds kids will come up with (using the browser app built into Windows Help to get around parental controls, combining web proxies and VPNs into an unholy homebrew Tor, or just using a burner phone outside the house), and while I appreciate the hacker culture that can develop around hiding apps from your parents, I don’t think it’ll be good for the relationship between you and your kids if you’re too strict about this stuff.

Snapchat is popular because other kids are on there. It’s mostly a stupid looking chat app. Every other chat app out there has cloned its most important features. Your kids won’t be missing out on anything on there, except for the network of friends and social activities that are there. That means you won’t find a Fediverse app like that, because most teenagers aren’t on the Fediverse. The other kids aren’t going to replace Snapchat with an app just to chat with your kids, especially not if it sends a copy of their conversations to their parents. Best case scenario, they install the app and share most of the stuff your kids are missing out on on the special server you set up so your kids don’t miss too much.

As for the point your daughter made, notifications can be silenced. If your kids are worried about phone addiction or getting interrupted by notifications, help them with whatever digital wellness tools their devices come with. Every major OS, desktop and mobile, now comes with tools to limit notifications during focus time, bed time, and the ability to silence notifications for certain chats or events. I find it hard to believe that Snapchat would solve that problem and feel like it’s more likely she’s using an unrelated valid concern to help her case for your permission to use Snapchat.

I don’t know how old your daughters are and what guidance they need, but if they’re creating PowerPoints to get their desires across (bravo), I think they’d be better served with guidance than with alternatives. Instead of rejecting them, consider permitting apps like Snapchat under certain conditions (time limits, no publicly posting pictures, no strangers, etc.). It’s probably also best to make the rules are clear and consistent (which means not taking away Snapchat time as punishment for arbitrary things), because that kind of stuff can cause trust issues that will still have them go behind your back. For this to work, they need to trust that you will honour the “deal”. I’m not saying you should let 12 year olds go ham on social media, but letting 16 year olds on Snapchat an hour a day isn’t going to kill them.

The biggest risk with these things is that kids will find a way to install these apps without you noticing, something bad happens (their online friend turns out to be a grown man, a classmate starts sending weird messages), and they’re afraid of talking to you about it because they might get in trouble for having a banned app on their phone.

For real-time communication, the most suitable solutions are probably documented around https://www.privacyguides.org/en/real-time-communication/ (note that email is not recommended for person-to-person conversations).

When do you think you should allow a child to have an email address? A Fediverse account is basically an email account, except that the primary inbox is shared with a lot of people rather than only one person (and the same goes for any social media account). If you wouldn’t allow someone to use an email address, you probably shouldn’t allow them to use a Fediverse account either.

At least one person who seems interested in the health of children expressed that “delaying children’s access to smartphones until high school and social media platforms until 16” is a good idea. https://www.anxiousgeneration.com/ https://jonathanhaidt.com/social-media/ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0MXgA2sSn8

• Dad can I have Snapchat?
• But we have Snapchat at home!

This is you rn. She wants to keep up with her friends, not participate in your ideology.

If you were my parent, I would have actively resented for the rest of my life from you for destroying my social life like that. Communicating with peers and engaging with them in their 3rd spaces is essential life learning.

And the next step would be finding ways to circumvent your ridiculous rules.

You’re not going to create a perfect adult free from social media use. You’re going to create an adult who doesn’t want to know you because you’re a control freak.

Strict parents create sneaky kids.

It’s good that you’re protective, but be careful not to be overly protective, kids need to think for themselves, make mistakes and learn from them.

How old are they?

The minimum age for Snapchat is 13. The direct mesaaging part of it allows for fun and harmless messages between friends. I think allowing her to use it if she’s 13+ is reasonable.

What you could do is to ask her not to allow friend requests or messages from anyone who are not her friends, not to use the AI assistant (which can’t be disabled), and to not use it to consume content from influencers (which is in a separate tab to the right). You cannot really police this, but it’s not the end of the world if she sees the feed of some dumb influencer.

Position data must of course also be disabled. Snapchat is a bit creepy.

The fediverse is always (somewhat) public. Getting together with other parents to set up a Pixelfed instance to use in the friend group rather than to have them use Instagram is a cool idea, and allows parents to be admins and decide who can federate without taking control of the accounts of the kids. It might be a nice way for them to learn that whatever they do online is run by some person whom they decide to trust. And it could keep them off Instagram a little longer.

I don’t really know the first thing about parenting though, just my thoughts. It’s a tricky question.

I don’t know you, your daughters, or their friends so I can’t make specific recommendations. What I can say is that it’s really common for teenagers who are sheltered from the dangers of the world to make more and bigger mistakes once they’re unsupervised than those who get a gradual introduction.

The two main dangers of social media for most people are:

1. Encountering assholes. For girls and women, there’s a high probability assholes will try to sexually exploit them. Since there are minimal consequences most of the time for sending “show me your tits”, they’re going to encounter that behavior eventually, and it may be easier to deal with for the first time when they have parental support.
2. Algorithmic rabbit holes. These can create the perception that problematic attitudes and behaviors are common and widely accepted when they are not. Having an open dialog with parents about anything from eating laundry detergent to Jordan Peterson can be a strong stabilizing influence.

I don’t think a closed Fediverse server is likely to serve as a first step in a gentle introduction because it has neither danger and presumably no strangers to talk to. The full Fediverse might work better, as it does offer interaction with strangers. Encounters with assholes will be less frequent than on corporate social media, and any rabbit holes will be much more self-directed.

That said, when one of them is likely within a year or two of leaving home or at least having full control of her digital life, if she wants to use some corporate social media, she’s probably better off doing that with some parental supervision and support than jumping in completely unprepared when you’re no longer in a position to prevent it.

Her friend group has a group text and she wants to keep up with everyone but doesn’t want to get the ding notifications constantly.

This seems like a good opportunity to learn how the notification settings on her phone work.

Take away their access to PowerPoint

Not the most related, but if Instagram becomes an issue, there is an Instagram patched app which is DMs only

It’s interesting the number of comments about parenting advice as opposed to technology suggestion.

For some clarifying points: my kids are allowed on some social media, BeReal, Youtube, Pinterest. They log into our accounts for FB Marketplace.

There is a growing acknowledgement amongst kids that smartphones and social media create mental health issues. All of my kids have asked us to limit their screen time.

I’m not an overly restrictive parent but I tend to ease my kids into things as opposed to one day it’s banned, one day it’s permitted. Collectively, parental controls suck on most technology platforms and at the end of the day, the corporate SM is still trying to addict you and turn you into the product.

I think what my dream is is for a simple set up of a family server with roles. So you can start with just sharing pictures with grandma and grandpa and then expand into sharing more broadly. But starting the online experience outside off of the corporate algorithms.

matrix synapse good learning expierance on how the internet works and is more closed then snapchat so less risks

They will encounter the awful sides of the internet in their lives. It is a fact of the internet.

What are you doing/going to do to prepare them for that eventuality?

You can’t protect children from life—you can only prepare them to handle it as best they can.