Feddit.org announced today that they are changing their rules to match German law despite their server not being hosted in Germany.
Feddit.org now bans
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The sentence “From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free”
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Comparing Israel to the Nazis
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Calls to end Zionism
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Calling for the dissolution of Israel
And much more. The full original post can be found here, or
Click here for full text of original post:
Hi.
In the past few days, discontent regarding mod decisions in this community has been brewing, particularly when it comes to comments on Palestine, Israel, and Israeli politics and actions. There are also misunderstandings regarding mod intention and German law. We hope to clear that up with this post.
While the servers of feddit.org are in Austria, most of the mods of this community as well as admins of this server live in Germany. Speaking of, our server admins have also posted a write-up on the same topic.
And with that, let’s go:
In Germany, antisemitism is specifically sanctioned in German criminal law, both for speech and as a motivation for other criminal behavior. In addition, Germany seeks to protect the Jewish state of Israel (the so-called “Reason of State” introduced in 2008) and thus verges toward protecting Zionism as well. Certain criticism of Israel/Israelis is also categorized as “Israel-related antisemitism”.
Since criminal law is involved, enforcement can mean things like police raids and device confiscations. After such police action, it does not really matter if it was appropriate or if cases are dropped or never charged: The damage is done. All told, it’s not that fun.
There is also no point in engaging in discussions about the veracity of statements that could get us into legal trouble. In addition, we believe that you can express most opinions without breaking rules.
If your comment contains the following, it will be removed from this community:
- Calling for the dissolution of Israel, or calling for a one-state solution without specifying equal rights for all people; Jewish in particular.
- Calling for a destruction, annihilation, an end of all Zionism or the like.
- Equating Israeli actions and (historical) Nazism.
- The slogan “from the river…”
- Endorsement of or justifications for Hamas or Hezbollah, or slogans or graphics positively referring to these organizations. These are considered terrorist organizations in Germany.
- … and obviously: Any of the common antisemitic tropes or calls to violence against Jews or Israelis
Comments will not be removed for the following:
- Denouncing genocide.
- Denouncing Israeli war crimes.
- Criticizing Zionism as an ideology or political movement.
- Referring to the current Israeli government as “criminal,” “expansionist,” or “far-right”.
If your comment is removed nonetheless, these are not the reason. I’d also like to stress that this community was never a free-speech-absolutist zone: It is a (usually lightly) moderated community. There may also be times when bans go too far. In such cases, please DM the @EuroMod@feddit.org account (which all mods have access to).
To help you understand why, I'll leave an assortment of sources here (translations via DeepL).
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Berlin in mid-May [2024] around 6 o’clock in the morning. A loud, continuous “banging” against the apartment door wakes student Alina T. from her sleep. […] When her husband opens the door, several LKA officers, two employees of the district office and the SEK “storm” past him into the apartment. Puzzled, he looks at the search warrant. […] The background to this was a Facebook entry in the student’s profile: "From the river […]
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In November 2023, the Federal Ministry of the Interior and for Home Affairs also issued a prohibition order against Hamas.[60] According to the order, “the slogan ‘From the River to the Sea’ (in German or other languages)” is a distinguishing mark of Hamas[61]. […] the current legal situation [regarding “Denial of Israel’s right to exist”] is - contrary to what the statements of the Federal Ministry of Justice suggest[63] - anything but clear. Whether incitements to eliminate the State of Israel are prosecuted depends on the respective legal opinion and the prosecution will of the respective public prosecutor’s office.
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Press release from the previous government:
In this context, Section 111 StGB, which covers public incitement to commit crimes, may also be relevant. Incitement to extinguish Israel’s existence by force may be punishable under this provision. The same applies to calls to publicly display the Hamas flag. If Hamas attacks are publicly cheered and celebrated, this may also be punishable. This means that people who cheer on Hamas’s actions or publicly express their sympathy with the attacks may constitute the criminal offence of “approval of criminal acts” under Section 140 of the German Criminal Code (StGB).
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In connection with the controversial Palestine Congress in Berlin, the German authorities have also imposed an entry ban on former Greek finance minister Yanis Varoufakis. “In order to prevent antisemitic and anti-Israel propaganda at the event”, several entry bans have been issued, the news agency AFP learned from security sources on Sunday. One of these concerned Varoufakis. (Notably, Varoufakis would have spoken about one-state solutions …)
federal reverse (on behalf of the mods of !europe)
They could have made a symmetrical ban.
I agree with this, in that I think it avoids the issue of appearing to side with one or the other — I think it’s more neutral.
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…equal rights for all people, Jewish in particular.
Lol
Cool, I’ll add them to my ban list.
Didn’t blaja already defed them?
Nah, that was feddit.uk
Shot you’re right. I forgot they were two separate instances tbh.
Better yet I am trying to get them to add me to their ban list
Beat you to it without even trying hah
Fucking Germany
I don’t blame the mods as they have little say in the matter but it’s sad to see never the less.
Tbh, I can understand it. There have been police raids kicking in doors of families with small children at 5 in the morning for having a Facebook post saying “from the … to the …” (I am also in Germany…). The police went through all of the families belongings and took all web-connected electronics.
The situation is really rough here in Germany.
When you’re so anti-Nazi that you loop around and become pro Reverse-Nazi.
Western Germany never de-Nazified, the Nazis teamed up with the Zionists even when the Nazis were in power. They left the Nazis as they were effective anti-Communists, and the West collectively felt that was a worthwhile trade. Germany pays lip service to combatting fighting the Nazis, but keeps the underlying fascism the West in general has.
What lack of theory does to a mfer.
Death to Germany
The country or the inhabitants?
Germany is a country. Germans are its inhabitants.
Yea, so which
Death to Germany
So where do the Germans go?
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Why would they have to “go” anywhere?
What would you do with them if you don’t relocate?
They dont “go” anywhere. The people in that physical location form a new, better government thats not bought out by foreign interests.
any other obvious stuff I can give you the minute details on? Do you need a diagram of how to use the toilet? Lend me some of your crayons and I’ll diagram it out for you. Thats why we are all here, to give you painfully obvious answers to boneheaded questions.
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They can be resettled in Libya with the Gazans.
Where do the Israelis go?
Defederate. Let them be murderous genocide apologists on their own.
Ex-nazis choosing to support neo-nazis. Maybe they lost the ex, is Germany OK?
Why are only Germans ex-nazi and Italians not ex-fascist? Y’all seem to enjoy your pizza
It’s almost as if this thread isn’t about Italy, Italians, or Italian law 🤔 super weird of me to focus on the topic presented, I know
Yeah you can call it what aboutism but you lie if it aint so
out of all my years on the internet this is such a dumb take lmao
I didn’t realise thinking Italy is fascist is mutually exclusive with enjoying pizza. I guess that means I’m not allowed to eat sauerkraut anymore?
just rename it to be freedom-kraut and you’re fine.
I always check if my pizza is fascist before eating
Mine was made in America so I guess I’ve ticked that box. like who can afford to air ship a pizza from Vietnam or whatever
Germany is supplying 30% of the weapons used in the Gaza genocide.
Italy also supplied, so where do you draw the line between not-fascist/fascist?
A negligeable amount. But I have no objections to calling the Meloni regime Fascists.
No but you have to be a hypocrite or else I can’t be comfortable supporting nazis
Is it any shock when actual members of the Nazi party and SS were kept around to help rebuild West Germany?
We should have just dealt with the problem instantly. Hindsight is 20/20 but fascists deserve no breaks.
I did not leave reddit to come to a fucked down version of political censorship. fuck you and begone. I’m blocking their instance
Oh man. Come on Lemmy.
Maybe read the post again and put yourself in the shoes of the admins and mods who do live in Germany.
Each of you personally has your own views on the Israel / Palestine genocide, and that’s absolutely fine.
However, very few of you risk personal criminal prosecution in support of Palestine. The people involved in hosting a lemmy instance are volunteers, who probably didn’t sign up for that kind of risk.
Also, the very nature of federation means that feddit can restrict this content on their servers confident in the knowledge that other servers can host this content in a jurisdiction that doesn’t have the same risks.
If I was one of the admins who lived in Germany, I would just step down; not capitulating to genocidal fascists is more important than getting to run my own little digital fiefdom.
My country is literally arbitrarily detaining and deporting/imprisoning people for advocating for a free Palestine. I still go to protests.
Free Palestine, from the river to the sea!
Maybe read the post again and put yourself in the shoes of the admins and mods who do live in Germany.
Maybe read the post again and put yourself in the shoes of the admins and mods who do live in Germany.
Man sucks to be them. Oh well, better preemptively censor all words because its illegal! Don’t stand for what’s right!
Why are you on an anarchist instance if you are for states limiting speech?
So uh, letting people like lemmy admins do what they want with their own instance is a fairly foundational concept of anarchism.
Complying and capitulating in advance with authoritarian laws to aid in covering up discussions of genocide isn’t, however.
So maybe the admins of feddit are not anarchists?
Probably not, you are on the anarchist instance, supporting obeying authoritarian laws. They aren’t.
I’m not supporting obeyance to authoritarian laws. I’m supporting other people doing whatever they like with their own resources - a fundamental principle of anarchy.
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Anarcho-capitalists aren’t anarchists
Lol.
What’s next? Put yourself in the shoes of the soldiers firing upon unarmed people?
Also, the genocide is immoral, inhumane, and needs to stop. I don’t know any other personal view that can be “absolutely fine”
Are you saying that because you genuinely believe your statement isn’t an instance of the slippery slope fallacy, or because you want to insult me?
Well, I guess you could put yourself in the shoes of soldiers if that floats your boat but it’s obviously not analogous to lemmy admins.
As I said, foregoing the personal risk doesn’t harm Palestinians in any way. You’re free to bemoan genocide on pretty much any other instance.
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It’s wild how lies and propaganda spread in real time.
While the servers of feddit.org [http://feddit.org/] are in Austria, most of the mods of this community as well as admins of this server live in Germany. [emphasis added]
In other words, the admins and mods can be held criminally liable for ‘anti-semitic’ speech on feddit.org because of where the admins and mods live.
If someone that lived in an area where child pornography was legal, and they posted child porn on feddit.org, the mods/admins would have the same legal obligation to remove that content. You can’t hide behind claiming that the servers are in another jurisdiction, when you control them.
You don’t have to like it, but that’s the way the law goes in Germany. It doesn’t even mean that the mods and admins agree with the law, but they can’t necessarily say what their real feelings are, because that could be taken as anti-semitism as well.
EDIT: This is why freedom of speech is important, y’all.
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If both CSAM and criticism of the state of Israel are illegal in Germany, then the admins and mods are legally obligated to remove both. Their feelings and beliefs are not relevant to their legal obligation.
I don’t see how you are incapable of understanding this.
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???
They both obligate moderators and administrators to remove illegal content, and failure to do so can result in criminal penalties for the people running the site.
Are you intentionally pretending that you don’t understand that both types of content–regardless of any morality–can land the admins in jail?
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So you are intentionally being obtuse.
Got it.
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Read the comments and see who’s catching bans. It’s one thing to be made to comply by force, it’s another to be celebrating that you’re now gonna be censoring anti Zionists
I can’t see who is catching a ban for what comment, because the comments have been censored. Q.E.D.
…Much like I have been for pointing out how the law functions. So, that’s cool, I guess.
FWIW, a number of states int he US have passed anti-BDS laws; it should be blatantly illegal under 1A to prevent institutions from boycotting Israel, and yet, so far, those laws haven’t been seriously challenged.
