Feddit.org announced today that they are changing their rules to match German law despite their server not being hosted in Germany.

Feddit.org now bans

  • The sentence “From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free”

  • Comparing Israel to the Nazis

  • Calls to end Zionism

  • Calling for the dissolution of Israel

And much more. The full original post can be found here, or

Click here for full text of original post:

Hi.

In the past few days, discontent regarding mod decisions in this community has been brewing, particularly when it comes to comments on Palestine, Israel, and Israeli politics and actions. There are also misunderstandings regarding mod intention and German law. We hope to clear that up with this post.

While the servers of feddit.org are in Austria, most of the mods of this community as well as admins of this server live in Germany. Speaking of, our server admins have also posted a write-up on the same topic.

And with that, let’s go:

In Germany, antisemitism is specifically sanctioned in German criminal law, both for speech and as a motivation for other criminal behavior. In addition, Germany seeks to protect the Jewish state of Israel (the so-called “Reason of State” introduced in 2008) and thus verges toward protecting Zionism as well. Certain criticism of Israel/Israelis is also categorized as “Israel-related antisemitism”.

Since criminal law is involved, enforcement can mean things like police raids and device confiscations. After such police action, it does not really matter if it was appropriate or if cases are dropped or never charged: The damage is done. All told, it’s not that fun.

There is also no point in engaging in discussions about the veracity of statements that could get us into legal trouble. In addition, we believe that you can express most opinions without breaking rules.

If your comment contains the following, it will be removed from this community:

  • Calling for the dissolution of Israel, or calling for a one-state solution without specifying equal rights for all people; Jewish in particular.
  • Calling for a destruction, annihilation, an end of all Zionism or the like.
  • Equating Israeli actions and (historical) Nazism.
  • The slogan “from the river…”
  • Endorsement of or justifications for Hamas or Hezbollah, or slogans or graphics positively referring to these organizations. These are considered terrorist organizations in Germany.
  • … and obviously: Any of the common antisemitic tropes or calls to violence against Jews or Israelis

Comments will not be removed for the following:

  • Denouncing genocide.
  • Denouncing Israeli war crimes.
  • Criticizing Zionism as an ideology or political movement.
  • Referring to the current Israeli government as “criminal,” “expansionist,” or “far-right”.

If your comment is removed nonetheless, these are not the reason. I’d also like to stress that this community was never a free-speech-absolutist zone: It is a (usually lightly) moderated community. There may also be times when bans go too far. In such cases, please DM the @EuroMod@feddit.org account (which all mods have access to).

To help you understand why, I'll leave an assortment of sources here (translations via DeepL).

  • A news report:

    Berlin in mid-May [2024] around 6 o’clock in the morning. A loud, continuous “banging” against the apartment door wakes student Alina T. from her sleep. […] When her husband opens the door, several LKA officers, two employees of the district office and the SEK “storm” past him into the apartment. Puzzled, he looks at the search warrant. […] The background to this was a Facebook entry in the student’s profile: "From the river […]

  • A legal treatise:

    In November 2023, the Federal Ministry of the Interior and for Home Affairs also issued a prohibition order against Hamas.[60] According to the order, “the slogan ‘From the River to the Sea’ (in German or other languages)” is a distinguishing mark of Hamas[61]. […] the current legal situation [regarding “Denial of Israel’s right to exist”] is - contrary to what the statements of the Federal Ministry of Justice suggest[63] - anything but clear. Whether incitements to eliminate the State of Israel are prosecuted depends on the respective legal opinion and the prosecution will of the respective public prosecutor’s office.

  • Press release from the previous government:

    In this context, Section 111 StGB, which covers public incitement to commit crimes, may also be relevant. Incitement to extinguish Israel’s existence by force may be punishable under this provision. The same applies to calls to publicly display the Hamas flag. If Hamas attacks are publicly cheered and celebrated, this may also be punishable. This means that people who cheer on Hamas’s actions or publicly express their sympathy with the attacks may constitute the criminal offence of “approval of criminal acts” under Section 140 of the German Criminal Code (StGB).

  • Another news report

    In connection with the controversial Palestine Congress in Berlin, the German authorities have also imposed an entry ban on former Greek finance minister Yanis Varoufakis. “In order to prevent antisemitic and anti-Israel propaganda at the event”, several entry bans have been issued, the news agency AFP learned from security sources on Sunday. One of these concerned Varoufakis. (Notably, Varoufakis would have spoken about one-state solutions …)

  • Overview Germany in 2024 by Amnesty International

  • Overview Germany in 2024 by Human Rights Watch

federal reverse (on behalf of the mods of !europe)

  • Navarian@lemm.ee
    0·
    1 month ago

    Man, seeing Germany side with genocide once again was fucking not on my bingo card.

    I don’t imagine things will get better under the new right-wing government either.

  • GnuLinuxDude@lemmy.ml
    0·
    1 month ago

    Palestinians, remember the following: you can resist your occupation but ONLY on the occupiers terms.

    For the rest of us, remember the following: you can protest genocide, but ONLY on the genocider’s terms.

    • comfy@lemmy.ml
      0·
      1 month ago

      Assuming you’re using the default Lemmy UI, there’s a block settings menu in your account settings page. It’s worth exploring, there’s some good options to play around with.

  • comfy@lemmy.ml
    0·
    1 month ago

    The write-up they link is also insightful. Notably, they “explicitly reject these accusations” of being Zionists and insist it’s a legal precaution required by their countries.

    I’ve bought servers for hosting some small communities and I sometimes thought maybe I was paranoid for retaining anonymity and carefully picking the country and company to allow muh freedoms as far as speech goes, but it’s interesting seeing .world and feddit pull out the “just following legislation” card (which is understandable, given that staff imprisonment is obviously bad for their community, but also irresponsible and complicit to simply accept the situation instead of resolving it, and because this is an internet community there are safe ways to resolve it).

    • poVoq@slrpnk.net
      0·
      1 month ago

      Feddit.org was not started as an law-skirting activist space with specific op-sec requirements.

      My impression when talking with the admins is that they are quite sympethatic to such efforts, but simply ask that to be done somewhere else where it is safer for everyone involved.

          • ohulancutash@feddit.ukEnglish
            0·
            1 month ago

            It is however illegal for them to allow such material to remain on their servers once they’re made aware of it.

            • blinx615@lemmy.ml
              0·
              1 month ago

              I didn’t say they needed to refuse, but they could make a statement regarding their feelings on this. And they should find a new location for their server…

            • anarchiddy@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
              0·
              1 month ago

              Their server isn’t located within Germany, from what I’m reading.

              From what I understand, the situation they are worried about is a german authority gaining access to their personal devices or somehow de-anonymizing their accounts and associating them with their actual identity while living in/traveling through germany, and seeing the type of content they are posting/allowing to be posted on a community they moderate.

              The actual risk of exposure to them is incredibly small.

              • poVoq@slrpnk.net
                0·
                1 month ago

                This is false. The German police will contact the Austrian one, who will share the contact details of the persons legally responsible for publication, and if those happen to be residents of Germany, the Austrian laws are irrelevant to what the German police does.

            • blinx615@lemmy.ml
              0·
              1 month ago

              Ok, so all German mods/admins should be removed of their roles until they move to a country with reasonable freedom of speech laws. Instead they’re enforcing the terrible laws of their home country on the rest of the people in the community, which is bullshit.

    • IttihadChe@lemmy.mlEnglish
      0·
      1 month ago

      Germans and being complicit because they are “just following laws/orders”. Name a better duo.

  • Grapho@lemmy.ml
    0·
    1 month ago

    Oh shit, the (White) Power Rankings heating up as feddit takes up an unexpected lead against stormfront.world

  • BrainInABox@lemmy.mlEnglish
    0·
    1 month ago

    While the servers of feddit.org are in Austria, most of the mods of this community as well as admins of this server live in Germany… Since criminal law is involved, enforcement can mean things like police raids and device confiscations.

    Lol, they’re trying to pretend that the cops will kick down their doors if someone says “free Palestine” on a server they’re mods of.

    • chobeat@lemmy.ml
      0·
      1 month ago

      I live in Germany, and it’s a totally realistic scenario, especially in Bavaria. They seize computers to intimidate digital activists all the time for way less serious topics.

        • chobeat@lemmy.ml
          0·
          1 month ago

          social media site specifically I don’t know, but raids for managing infrastructure for completely legal but politically inconvenient activities, yes, plenty. I remember going to a talk from a guy managing the servers of Extinction Rebellion and he got all his stuff seized, never got accused of anything, had to wait months to get his stuff back and never got back a few things.

          • BrainInABox@lemmy.mlEnglish
            0·
            1 month ago

            Source?

            And that’s very different to just being an admin on a social media site that doesn’t ruthlessly enforce German law.

            • deathbird@mander.xyz
              0·
              1 month ago

              So here’s an article about a raid on an environmentalist group in Germany called Last Generation: https://earth.org/last-generation-activists/

              There’s a link to the German language statement from the police which is quite readable after translation, and of course the article itself describes the general activities that they were engaged in and accused of.

              Of the activities that they were accused of, it does seem in line with prior environmental activist groups like Extinction Rebellion, Greenpeace, and Earth First!

              As for what laws get enforced by a website, that is going to depend on jurisdiction. For example, the USA has section 230 of the DMCA, which holds that website operators are not responsible for user content with the exception of content accused of violating copyright within certain parameters. Doesn’t mean they won’t raid your servers, just means you won’t be held legally responsible if they think you were sufficiently responsive to issues when raised.

              At this time I don’t know the specifics of what Germans have to think about to avoid state interference, but it does look like it is more severe than what the US has to do with.

      • BrainInABox@lemmy.mlEnglish
        0·
        1 month ago

        I know that they’re repressing opposition to Israel, but I have not heard of them arresting someone just for being a moderator on a website that doesn’t follow German law.

        • poVoq@slrpnk.net
          0·
          1 month ago

          The moderators less likely, but the server admins quite likely, as those are legally responsible for the publication. Where the server is physically located is actually of lesser relevance in that regard.

  • frostysauce@lemmy.world
    0·
    1 month ago

    Comments will not be removed for the following:

    • Denouncing genocide.
    • Denouncing Israeli war crimes.
    • Criticizing Zionism as an ideology or political movement.
    • Referring to the current Israeli government as “criminal,” “expansionist,” or “far-right”.

    Y’all grabbed your pitchforks before you even got to that part, didn’t you?

    • Schmoo@slrpnk.net
      0·
      1 month ago

      • You can criticize Zionism as an ideology, but you can’t call for its end.

      • You can refer to the current Israeli government as “criminal,” but you can’t call for the dissolution of the state of Israel as it currently exists.

      You see the problem, surely?

    • deathbird@mander.xyz
      0·
      1 month ago

      What, you’re scared of getting harrassed by your government for wrongthink on your hobby project? You sir are the actual fascist! We’ll defederate! Can’t let any of those instance users access ours. 🤡

    • MetalMachine@feddit.nlEnglish
      0·
      1 month ago

      You can’t call for the end of israel, a state started by ethnically cleansing the Palestinians and stealing their land. You don’t realize why thats a problem?

      • sunzu2@thebrainbin.org
        0·
        1 month ago

        both are regime fronts on fedi.

        It amazing to see how organic opinion is against them and without centralized social media they can’t suppress this sentiment.

        Makes you wonder how often public opinions get subverted by these regime whore shills.

        • Eugene V. Debs' Ghost@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
          0·
          1 month ago

          I doubt Lemmy has any major effect on public option at large. Reddit never did when they supported Ron Paul and Bernie Sanders, at the height of its user count/activity.

          But I don’t doubt that Lemmy enables echo chambers and filter bubbles that enable people to brush aside any criticism of their favorite politician or nation-state as The Good Guys.

          • Omega@discuss.online
            0·
            1 month ago

            Lemmy is the most ML oriented community I’ve been in… Well, it literally has been created by ML

          • Whats_your_reasoning@lemmy.world
            0·
            1 month ago

            I understood the comment above to be comparing how public opinion is allowed to shape itself in the fediverse, vs being censored and molded to only fit particular permitted messages in mainstream social media. We can express ourselves without worrying that we’ll get locked out of the entire fediverse for stating an opinion that mods or admins don’t like. Which makes it fair to wonder how much suppression is going on elsewhere, that we don’t see and never hear reports on, because censorship.

            I’m not sure where the idea of Lemmy having an effect on public opinion at large came from. It feels like a non-sequitur, but maybe I’m just too tired and I missed something.

    • poVoq@slrpnk.net
      0·
      1 month ago

      The post literally says that you can critizise that 🤦

      Please understand that there can be some nuance on the topic and that people in Germany are understandably extra careful on the topic.

      • wpb@lemmy.world
        0·
        1 month ago

        Claiming that the genocide, apartheid, and colonialism perpetrated by Israel is in any way complex or nuanced is such a disgustingly smug way of revealing you haven’t spent even a moment thinking the situation through, or reading up on the history. Gross.

          • ok_comfortable6561@lemmy.ml
            0·
            1 month ago

            You watched some video of some civilians getting hurt in a war zone and formed all your opinions about the conflict based on your emotional response to that, so yeah, you are being reactionary.

      • electric_nan@lemmy.ml
        0·
        1 month ago

        So hand over the instance moderation to people in a different jurisdiction, or shut it down entirely. Don’t comply with this bullshit.

          • electric_nan@lemmy.ml
            0·
            1 month ago

            Having an opinion isn’t “complaining”. I’m not even on that instance, I just happen to care about solidarity with victims of genocide.

  • rottingleaf@lemmy.world
    0·
    1 month ago

    Better than what the headline seems though.

    The description reads almost like malicious compliance.

    Still. There are people advocating for similar measures against statements not as normal as the listed.

    I hope these people can see how their wishes being fulfilled might lead to similar regrettable results. It’s better not to walk the preceding steps.

    One set of basics a decent human being should always remember - “I am not wise, I am not righteous, and I don’t know what is right and what is wrong, I can only try not to multiply evil and to avoid lying to myself and others, and when I make a decision, I know it’ll harm people”.

    • Grapho@lemmy.ml
      0·
      1 month ago

      The comments section is a circle jerk full of chuds going “it’s about time somevody stood up for poor Israel, only here and world isn’t Hamas”

      I’d call it a psyop but Eur*peans have proven to be this ghoulish across their entire history so

      • sunzu2@thebrainbin.org
        0·
        1 month ago

        I wish this was a psyop but germans have some weird mental gymnastics that result in them cornering themselves into these weird positions

        Another one is their relationship with Russia… 🤡

        • rottingleaf@lemmy.world
          0·
          1 month ago

          Germans are quickly rearming, BTW.

          And if we look at the numbers, their planned military budget is going to be the size of Russia’s. The efficiency of its use, despite all the jokes about German military bureaucracy, is going to be better too.

          So I’d say it’s a huge question who’s being cornered, them or everybody around. Considering the size of Germany’s economy, its dependent economies and allied states. Considering that France, Poland, obviously Ukraine are interested in participating, so there’s bigger total scale of the system achievable.

          Even for the old-fashioned kind of militarism they have sufficient population.

          And about Putin - one of that regime’s worst unseen qualities is that not only it’s sadistic and barbaric and generally evil, it’s also incompetent. Well, competent in killing people, preserving power and all kinds of sadism, incompetent in strategy. In 5 years when Germany rearms well enough, they might, to optimize expenses, do something huge for old times’ sake after solving the immediate problem, and for this kind of aggression Putin’s Russia will not be ready, not even on the level of 1941.

          But also Putin&co have that common for Soviet nomenclature fetish for the German empire. And they are psychopaths. They might be bringing this about because they want this to happen. They will all be in European countries, after all, living just fine, and nobody will put them in jail or take away their stolen riches.

    • IndustryStandard@lemmy.worldOP
      0·
      1 month ago

      Banning calls for dissolution of a genocidal Apartheid is not “malicious compliance”.

      They are even banning calls to end Zionism which is comparable to banning calls to end Nazism.

      Of course this comparison could not be made on Feddit.org because they ban comparisons of Zionism to Nazis.