With Zelenskyy saying the end of the war may be very far off, it looks like Ukraine is preparing to go ahead without US aid, rather than be pressured to give in to Russian ultimatums.
We’ll see if he can hold out if/when we lift our sanctions on Russia and start allowing the transfer of everything they need to rebuild their military hardware. Or even worse, selling them our own weapons.
EDIT: And now around three hours after I posted this, White House announces directive to drop sanctions. gg
I mean, whats the alternative? Unconditional surrender?
As I see it, here’s the 3 options:
Bend the knee to trump, give up your resources, and keep your country with no security guarantee worth a damn, just to lose your country later. And not just the lack of credible security guarantees, but specifically agreeing to never join the one alliance that would give such a guarantee.
Bend the knee to Putin, and just let Russia annex Ukraine fully, therefore avoiding a war in the unspecified future.
Go at it with or without US support.
If you were the leader of your country, how much of your land and resources would you give away in the pursuit of temporary peace, knowing that it is only temporary?
Churchill kept fighting Nazis when it was hopeless and parliament was trying to force him to surrender because he said that 1. Surrender would get the UK no better terms (true here, also) and 2. Countries which go down fighting survive as countries. (I mean in the hearts and minds of people, not just on a map). Countries which surrender, don’t.
Putin can’t be trusted. Without security guarantees, it’s surrender. Even with security guarantees from this current US administration, I wouldn’t trust any agreement, since trump isn’t trustworthy either. There needs to be troops from all over the EU in UKraine, as well as US troops. Either that or give Ukraine nuclear weapons.
I didn’t say it was the wrong choice. Just that now it is more of an uphill battle than ever, perhaps with exception of the first month or so of the conflict.
I didn’t think you did. I was more continuing the conversation to point out that there is no alternative. Someone else replied to me with a great point about Churchill being in a similar situation as Zelenskyy during WW2.
It’s clear this go around, America is going to join the wrong side of history. That’s not a new thing, but it will be the first world war specifically where we are clearly are on the bad side. Typically America commits it’s atrocities in smaller skirmishes, and by destabilizing and taking advantage less developed nations for profit. That slavery habit does hard.
The world is fucked, and America is deciding whether to go through a civil war, or to let it be a “bloodless revolution” to quote the heritage foundation president. Europe is going to have to figure out how to defend in a post American world at best, or it’s going to have to figure out how to defend against America at worst.
Also, to your edit… Not just the end of Russian sanctions, but the full official cut of military aid to Ukraine. We’re witnessing the beginning of WW3. Hope we both make it through or that tensions die down.
I never had the U.S. switching sides on my bingo card. I thought at most they would stop providing aid and support. Trumps policies were very isolationist in his first term.
I never had the U.S. switching sides on my bingo card.
I don’t know why anyone was caught flatfooted by this when it was clear to anyone paying attention that if Trump was elected, his plan to end the war was to hand control of Ukraine over to Russia.
This was as obvious and predictable as the January 6th insurrection.
Imma call one thing out; 01/06 was not predictable. Every single one of us watched in pure shock. I watched 8 hours, live, and I cannot do it again, shit left me with PTSD-light. I’ve done and seen some crazy shit in life, but not like that.
Dude, I was watching live coverage of the 01/06 proceedings and saw the early breakouts of the problem and then the devolution of it.
Wanna know why I was watching such a boring, non-event? Because everyone with a Twitter account, the ability to read, and a pulse knew that Trump’s supporters absolutely were going to try something on 01/06.
If I knew there was a good enough probability that something would go down that I was watching live coverage of what’s typically not even something anyone ever talks about, the event was completely and utterly predictable.
Dude holds a grudge like an absolute motherfucker, in addition to being a complete shitbag. He is vindictive as all fuck. The second the war started, my immediate reaction is “Putin is gonna drag this out till the election, and hope (read: influence the election so) that Trump wins”. Not to mention, officials in his first administration had to talk him down from leaving NATO multiple times, apparently. This whole thing was in the playbook from the get-go, imo.
He’s isolationist (or “evangelical”, or “a hawk”, or what have you) so long as it serves his interests - and I mean specifically HIS interests. He is a malignant narcissist. He does not actually care about anyone outside of himself
We don’t need to switch sides overtly for our hyena financiers and industry captains to make a buck trading with Russia, giving their war economy a sigh of relief which they desperately need.
Precisely. The only enemy that the US conservative party sees is China. Everyone else is a business partner that they must strong arm into favourable deals for the US.
I’m sure that there will be some capital holders who are willing to invest in Russia, however I don’t really think a lot of the big players will be rushing back to Russia.
A large reason Russia has had such an about face since the early 00’s is because a huge amount of western capital pulled out of Moscow after they invaded Georgia in 08. Since then Putin has had to double down in his overtly aggressive pillaging from Russia’s neighbors to maintain his hierarchy of control over the oligarchs in Russia.
The invasion of Ukraine is largely a part of a sunk cost fallacy of his blunder in 08. I don’t think he realized how skittish his power plays made foreign investors, nor did he predict the following sanctions that followed in his attempts to recover his power over the oligarchs.
I don’t know about “investing” and putting risk in the Russian state. But raw materials for cash? Dual-use components for cash? Cash for cheap oil? If Russia’s willing to rip the copper pipes out of the walls to pay for the things it needs, I’m sure someone here will be willing to take it.
I’m sure there will be some takers, but to be honest their real bread and butter is mostly petroleum products which directly compete with American petroleum companies. Sanctions against a competitor are vastly more valuable than the oil itself to American petroleum corporations.
As far as other minerals go, they are valuable… But most of them are going right to the production market in China.
It really doesn’t behoove corporate America to partner with Russian interests, which is kinda surprising why we haven’t really seen a lot of backlash yet. I’m guessing they’re keeping their heads down for now and seeing if the tax cuts are worth all the hassle.
You know the saying, be the change and all that. If you think it’s a good idea you should go for it. I don’t know much about fundraising or web design but I would be willing to offer some kind of support, be it some time and energy or helpful resources/tools I am able to find for example. Maybe you can help in ways other than financially as well. We are the ones who need to do the things. The number of those willing to act and speak out against oppression and regression and the cults of ignorance and capitalism has been going down as a result of a concerted effort by very well funded groups and individuals. The sooner we act to pull folks out of the pipelines siloing them off into hateful ideologies (alt-right pipeline comes to mind for example) the sooner we can start the work, individually and interpersonally and otherwise, to end the cyclical perpetuation of harm forced upon us by the systems that we live under. Please feel free to reach out if you want support and resources for taking steps to make changes, and that offer is for anyone who is reading this and doesn’t know where to start and is acting in good faith.
Yeah I didn’t know about that one… But I was looking for something more in line of… I don’t support our idiot of a president and his actions so I’m giving this guy money in spite of him
The ultimatums putin, erm I mean trump suggests is essentially completely surrendering to Russia (maybe with a brief ceasefire, to let Russian soldiers to regroup)
With Zelenskyy saying the end of the war may be very far off, it looks like Ukraine is preparing to go ahead without US aid, rather than be pressured to give in to Russian ultimatums.
We’ll see if he can hold out if/when we lift our sanctions on Russia and start allowing the transfer of everything they need to rebuild their military hardware. Or even worse, selling them our own weapons.
EDIT: And now around three hours after I posted this, White House announces directive to drop sanctions. gg
I mean, whats the alternative? Unconditional surrender?
As I see it, here’s the 3 options:
Bend the knee to trump, give up your resources, and keep your country with no security guarantee worth a damn, just to lose your country later. And not just the lack of credible security guarantees, but specifically agreeing to never join the one alliance that would give such a guarantee.
Bend the knee to Putin, and just let Russia annex Ukraine fully, therefore avoiding a war in the unspecified future.
Go at it with or without US support.
If you were the leader of your country, how much of your land and resources would you give away in the pursuit of temporary peace, knowing that it is only temporary?
Churchill kept fighting Nazis when it was hopeless and parliament was trying to force him to surrender because he said that 1. Surrender would get the UK no better terms (true here, also) and 2. Countries which go down fighting survive as countries. (I mean in the hearts and minds of people, not just on a map). Countries which surrender, don’t.
Putin can’t be trusted. Without security guarantees, it’s surrender. Even with security guarantees from this current US administration, I wouldn’t trust any agreement, since trump isn’t trustworthy either. There needs to be troops from all over the EU in UKraine, as well as US troops. Either that or give Ukraine nuclear weapons.
I didn’t say it was the wrong choice. Just that now it is more of an uphill battle than ever, perhaps with exception of the first month or so of the conflict.
Europe needs to step up and quickly.
I didn’t think you did. I was more continuing the conversation to point out that there is no alternative. Someone else replied to me with a great point about Churchill being in a similar situation as Zelenskyy during WW2.
It’s clear this go around, America is going to join the wrong side of history. That’s not a new thing, but it will be the first world war specifically where we are clearly are on the bad side. Typically America commits it’s atrocities in smaller skirmishes, and by destabilizing and taking advantage less developed nations for profit. That slavery habit does hard.
The world is fucked, and America is deciding whether to go through a civil war, or to let it be a “bloodless revolution” to quote the heritage foundation president. Europe is going to have to figure out how to defend in a post American world at best, or it’s going to have to figure out how to defend against America at worst.
Also, to your edit… Not just the end of Russian sanctions, but the full official cut of military aid to Ukraine. We’re witnessing the beginning of WW3. Hope we both make it through or that tensions die down.
Importantly Europe needs to step up before the US does.
I never had the U.S. switching sides on my bingo card. I thought at most they would stop providing aid and support. Trumps policies were very isolationist in his first term.
I don’t know why anyone was caught flatfooted by this when it was clear to anyone paying attention that if Trump was elected, his plan to end the war was to hand control of Ukraine over to Russia.
This was as obvious and predictable as the January 6th insurrection.
Imma call one thing out; 01/06 was not predictable. Every single one of us watched in pure shock. I watched 8 hours, live, and I cannot do it again, shit left me with PTSD-light. I’ve done and seen some crazy shit in life, but not like that.
Here’s the PBS trailer:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHQ6FoDjeDE
If anyone can take it, I’d suggest a refresher course. The event was worse than even I remember, and I’m a hater from day 1.
All you can eat documentaries:
https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/january-6-insurrection-capitol-attack-documentaries-streaming/
Dude, I was watching live coverage of the 01/06 proceedings and saw the early breakouts of the problem and then the devolution of it.
Wanna know why I was watching such a boring, non-event? Because everyone with a Twitter account, the ability to read, and a pulse knew that Trump’s supporters absolutely were going to try something on 01/06.
If I knew there was a good enough probability that something would go down that I was watching live coverage of what’s typically not even something anyone ever talks about, the event was completely and utterly predictable.
I figured he’d stop supporting Ukraine. I otherwise didn’t think he gave a shit.
He was cheering the invasion and said Putin was a genius for timing it when he did or whatever.
Wait, really?
Dude holds a grudge like an absolute motherfucker, in addition to being a complete shitbag. He is vindictive as all fuck. The second the war started, my immediate reaction is “Putin is gonna drag this out till the election, and hope (read: influence the election so) that Trump wins”. Not to mention, officials in his first administration had to talk him down from leaving NATO multiple times, apparently. This whole thing was in the playbook from the get-go, imo.
He’s isolationist (or “evangelical”, or “a hawk”, or what have you) so long as it serves his interests - and I mean specifically HIS interests. He is a malignant narcissist. He does not actually care about anyone outside of himself
Do you remember why trump was impeached the first time?
lol yeah. Like I said: dude holds a grudge like a motherfucker.
We don’t need to switch sides overtly for our hyena financiers and industry captains to make a buck trading with Russia, giving their war economy a sigh of relief which they desperately need.
It’s idiotic Canada has a bigger economy than Russia, EU has many many times bigger economy than Russia.
This is done for personal favors and it isn’t just hurting Ukraine it is fucking up US as well.
Precisely. The only enemy that the US conservative party sees is China. Everyone else is a business partner that they must strong arm into favourable deals for the US.
I’m sure that there will be some capital holders who are willing to invest in Russia, however I don’t really think a lot of the big players will be rushing back to Russia.
A large reason Russia has had such an about face since the early 00’s is because a huge amount of western capital pulled out of Moscow after they invaded Georgia in 08. Since then Putin has had to double down in his overtly aggressive pillaging from Russia’s neighbors to maintain his hierarchy of control over the oligarchs in Russia.
The invasion of Ukraine is largely a part of a sunk cost fallacy of his blunder in 08. I don’t think he realized how skittish his power plays made foreign investors, nor did he predict the following sanctions that followed in his attempts to recover his power over the oligarchs.
I don’t know about “investing” and putting risk in the Russian state. But raw materials for cash? Dual-use components for cash? Cash for cheap oil? If Russia’s willing to rip the copper pipes out of the walls to pay for the things it needs, I’m sure someone here will be willing to take it.
I’m sure there will be some takers, but to be honest their real bread and butter is mostly petroleum products which directly compete with American petroleum companies. Sanctions against a competitor are vastly more valuable than the oil itself to American petroleum corporations.
As far as other minerals go, they are valuable… But most of them are going right to the production market in China.
It really doesn’t behoove corporate America to partner with Russian interests, which is kinda surprising why we haven’t really seen a lot of backlash yet. I’m guessing they’re keeping their heads down for now and seeing if the tax cuts are worth all the hassle.
I don’t know what the logistics are but how do we start a fundraiser for this man?
It would piss trump off…
It would show the rest of the world there are still sane people in America…
It probably wouldn’t help much but if it’s anywhere near successful it will probably make an impact… And force trump to actually help
Someone needs to do this…
You know the saying, be the change and all that. If you think it’s a good idea you should go for it. I don’t know much about fundraising or web design but I would be willing to offer some kind of support, be it some time and energy or helpful resources/tools I am able to find for example. Maybe you can help in ways other than financially as well. We are the ones who need to do the things. The number of those willing to act and speak out against oppression and regression and the cults of ignorance and capitalism has been going down as a result of a concerted effort by very well funded groups and individuals. The sooner we act to pull folks out of the pipelines siloing them off into hateful ideologies (alt-right pipeline comes to mind for example) the sooner we can start the work, individually and interpersonally and otherwise, to end the cyclical perpetuation of harm forced upon us by the systems that we live under. Please feel free to reach out if you want support and resources for taking steps to make changes, and that offer is for anyone who is reading this and doesn’t know where to start and is acting in good faith.
https://u24.gov.ua/
How easy can it get…
Yeah I didn’t know about that one… But I was looking for something more in line of… I don’t support our idiot of a president and his actions so I’m giving this guy money in spite of him
The ultimatums putin, erm I mean trump suggests is essentially completely surrendering to Russia (maybe with a brief ceasefire, to let Russian soldiers to regroup)