The claim I gave was that the Soviet Union was historically progressive compared to peer capitalist countries. I never said they were progressive compared to modern western countries when it comes to queer rights, and when it comes to women’s rights, worker’s rights, and more, the Soviet Union was more progressive than the US is today. You are shifting the goalpost to the idea that I said the Soviet Union was flawless even by modern standards, which I never said.
Further, you again try to draw a direct line from a socialist federation of countries to the horrendously reactionary states that replaced them. There is no material basis for this, otherwise the Tsarist system would have continued culturally into the Soviet system. They clearly did not, the Soviet Union was enormously progressive compared to the Tsarist system, just like the modern reactionary states are far more reactionary than the Soviet Union was.
Human rights were also quite strong in the USSR, especially compared to capitalist countries.
This is what you said. You’re having ESPECIALLY do a lot of leg work in that sentence. They really weren’t strong at all which is evident in the culture today. The actual sentence should be:
Human rights were existent in the USSR that capitalist countries hadn’t embraced, and vice versa.
And my point to this is how these are viewed today. In post soviet countries LGBTIA+ is completely repressed, it is literally dangerous to be queer in some places not even openly queer, just queer. Racism runs rampant. Cultures are completely broken from these actions. Which is why I bring up looking at today because Cause and Effect is real and it is how historians help understand the evolution of a culture. If the Soviet Union had such progressive stances they’d have impacted today’s culture, and in many ways they do not. Abuse against women is still rampant with even less support from the government than it had before, LGBTQIA+ individuals are in extreme danger in some of these post soviet countries. It just doesn’t add up and I don’t understand why you want to defend that so aggressively that you won’t even budge or support those truths.
Using modern day culture in reactionary states as evidence for human rights in entirely different socialist states is, as I already said, horrendously wrong. Again, social rights dramatically expanded compared to Tsardom, and dramatically shrank after the dissolution of socialism. The idea that the modern reaction is evidence of a lack of human rights in an entirely different socioeconomic system lends itself more to biological determinism than to a materialist analysis.
Further, you are again stating that you do not care about placing your analysis within historical context. You deem the present to be the bar to judge against, despite the fact that even the most progressive states today will be considered horribly reactionary in the future. This is why I stressed the importance of comparing to contemporary peers, because I am indisputably correct in that statement.
You are trying to argue 2 falsehoods:
There is no meaningful change in the human rights in society when the entire social form reverses.
The Soviet Union should be measured against the arbitrary levels of present day human rights, not placed in its historical context.
You don’t have truths to defend, your entire argument rests on believing there to have been no meaningful change in social relations when the move from socialism to capitalism happened, and that these changes could be compared to modern capitalist countries.
I did not make the argument that modern Russia is more socially progressive than the modern US. I made the argument that the historical Soviet Union was more socially progressive than the historical west, which is indisputably true. You cannot argue with my actual claim, so you have to move the goalpost.
The claim I gave was that the Soviet Union was historically progressive compared to peer capitalist countries. I never said they were progressive compared to modern western countries when it comes to queer rights, and when it comes to women’s rights, worker’s rights, and more, the Soviet Union was more progressive than the US is today. You are shifting the goalpost to the idea that I said the Soviet Union was flawless even by modern standards, which I never said.
Further, you again try to draw a direct line from a socialist federation of countries to the horrendously reactionary states that replaced them. There is no material basis for this, otherwise the Tsarist system would have continued culturally into the Soviet system. They clearly did not, the Soviet Union was enormously progressive compared to the Tsarist system, just like the modern reactionary states are far more reactionary than the Soviet Union was.
You have no leg to stand on.
This is what you said. You’re having ESPECIALLY do a lot of leg work in that sentence. They really weren’t strong at all which is evident in the culture today. The actual sentence should be:
And my point to this is how these are viewed today. In post soviet countries LGBTIA+ is completely repressed, it is literally dangerous to be queer in some places not even openly queer, just queer. Racism runs rampant. Cultures are completely broken from these actions. Which is why I bring up looking at today because Cause and Effect is real and it is how historians help understand the evolution of a culture. If the Soviet Union had such progressive stances they’d have impacted today’s culture, and in many ways they do not. Abuse against women is still rampant with even less support from the government than it had before, LGBTQIA+ individuals are in extreme danger in some of these post soviet countries. It just doesn’t add up and I don’t understand why you want to defend that so aggressively that you won’t even budge or support those truths.
Using modern day culture in reactionary states as evidence for human rights in entirely different socialist states is, as I already said, horrendously wrong. Again, social rights dramatically expanded compared to Tsardom, and dramatically shrank after the dissolution of socialism. The idea that the modern reaction is evidence of a lack of human rights in an entirely different socioeconomic system lends itself more to biological determinism than to a materialist analysis.
Further, you are again stating that you do not care about placing your analysis within historical context. You deem the present to be the bar to judge against, despite the fact that even the most progressive states today will be considered horribly reactionary in the future. This is why I stressed the importance of comparing to contemporary peers, because I am indisputably correct in that statement.
You are trying to argue 2 falsehoods:
There is no meaningful change in the human rights in society when the entire social form reverses.
The Soviet Union should be measured against the arbitrary levels of present day human rights, not placed in its historical context.
You don’t have truths to defend, your entire argument rests on believing there to have been no meaningful change in social relations when the move from socialism to capitalism happened, and that these changes could be compared to modern capitalist countries.
I did not make the argument that modern Russia is more socially progressive than the modern US. I made the argument that the historical Soviet Union was more socially progressive than the historical west, which is indisputably true. You cannot argue with my actual claim, so you have to move the goalpost.