cross-posted from: https://lemmy.ml/post/14006090
New UN report outlines the ‘Anatomy of a Genocide’ in Gaza
At this point just drop the weasel words and say it plain. It is a genocide by all accounts. Its not going to change anything, but call it like it is already.
I disagree.
On what grounds?
Lots of reasons but mainly that the high civilian death toll is easily explained by Hamas’s strategy of using human shields and Hamas’s criminal leadership decisions.
The most shocking and inflammatory “reports” are usually unverified and usually come from incredible or incompetent sources, and that this is readily apparent in virtually every article about the war if you can slow your emotions down and actually evaluate the reported facts. Article from credible journalists usually even say “these reports could not be independently verified.”
I also find the IDF to be generally credible, usually victims of lies and exaggeration, whereas I find Hamas to have zero credibility whatsoever. I also think it’s completely justified to continue bombing military targets until every member of Hamas is dead, and that if civilians in the area of a military target have been reasonably warned to evacuate, that’s all that morality or international law requires before launching a strike, especially in light of Hamas’s strategy of hiding among willing civilians while also failing to wear uniforms.
Also the death tolls are going down month over month, and the fact that only 30,000 people are dead in in such a densely populated area of 2.3m people, is a testament to the fact that the warnings mostly work, that the evacuations mostly worked, and that the targeting is mostly very precise. Otherwise, the death toll would be much higher.
I also view the conflict almost entirely in terms of the posture between Israel and Iran and trying to avoid a broader war that could kill 100,000,000 people, perhaps more. Like what are we talking about here? Human life, human rights? Try on 30,000,000 dead and see how sad that makes everyone.
Also, I don’t see how giving Hamas a country advances the cause of human rights? Extreme religious autocracies have never once secured human rights for anyone. In fact if you go to Gaza and start talking about securing human rights for people you might get murdered for being an infidel.
Finally, the handful of legit war crimes committed by Israelis don’t color the entire war for me. Israel actually has a history of prosecuting war criminals, unlike in Gaza where war criminals get a prize from Daddy Hamas.
If Israel is not gullible, could you please ELI5 why are they not allowing journalists to enter Gaza?
Because if they do and you are right they will show the whole world what a moral army Israel has. Right? Do you see the paradox here?
Weren’t Israel also found guilty to provide adequate humanitarian aid, cut food, electricity, drinking water, telecommunications, found guilty of using dumb and extremely powerful bombs over densely populated areas. Destroyed completely the health facilities in Gaza, along with their infrastructure, people’s home, forced mass displacement of millions of Gazans who by the way up until now are not allowed to return to their homes and induced immense suffering of millions of civilians? Isn’t this collective punishment? What about the reciprocity rule in wars? Do you not find the suffering of regular Palestinians extreme?
So please use a bit of critical thinking next time before posting something.
Found guilty to provide adequate humanitarian aid? No, they were not found guilty of anything. The ICJ denied South Africa’s request for a preliminary injunction and instead told Israel to submit a report and to be sure to provide aid. It literally didn’t order Israel to do anything it wasn’t already doing. Not sure where you got the idea that Israel had been found guilty of something by anyone.
Israel does allow journalists into Gaza in groups. But their reasoning is not secret and not unreasonable.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/high-court-says-israel-can-keep-barring-foreign-reporters-from-gaza/
Oh man, aren’t you living in parallel reality?
Didn’t Israel just kill 7 humanitarian workers, making it 200 since the beginning of the war? They hit three clearly marked vehicles with three separate bombs.
There are multiple reports that they don’t have a proper deconfliction mechanism 6 months into the war.
Children are dying from malnutrition.
There are multiple reports that their COGAT agency doesn’t provide clear guidance on what items are prohibited and are artificially delaying admitting humanitarian aid.
They didn’t do anything when a bunch of demonstrators blocked the humanitarian aid with days in an already dire situation in Gaza.
They are currently trying to block UNRWA from functioning in Gaza, during a pre-famine. Shall I also remind you that all UNRWA employees are also going through a vetting process by Israel and all their employees are checked by Israel and now they complain about them being Hamas. So if this is true, Israel has done pretty sloppy job. Shall we also comment the fact that they created a story where they were claiming 12 UNRWA employees to be involved with Hamas, out of 30K. That’s less than 0.5%. not to mention that they didn’t even provide publicly a proof for their allegations.
Heck, even their closest allies, the US and UK have rebuked them and told them to do more.
The reality is that they can open more crossings and start delivering adequate amounts of humanitarian aid, but they deliberately chose not to. And I can provide you a lot of articles from the likes of Reuters, AP, etc . who should be the least opinionated sources.
Regarding the journalists: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68423995
https://www.ebu.ch/news/2024/03/call-to-allow-foreign-journalists-into-gaza
And all this coming from the most “moral” army, right.
Maybe next time you should start using that head of yours for something more than sucking your state’s propaganda, and perhaps try to put yourself in the regular Gazan’s shoes, and tell me how you would feel.
I think your knowledge of this is superficial and you’re actually the one in the parallel reality. Like, just one example: Dozens of countries didn’t suspend funding to UNRWA over 12 workers, but 12 workers became the face of it. It’s the single largest employer in Gaza. It’s like Wal-Mart (or is it Amazon now, in America).
You really think only 12 of them are in Hamas? The actual report from Israeli intelligence suggested 12 people helped with October 7. It found that there were thousands, up to half of all UNRWA employees, with direct supportive ties to members of the local government (Hamas, very popular in Gaza), and likely hundreds to thousands of actual card-carrying members, in addition to the 12 known employees who used UNRWA resources to execute October 7.
UNRWA has long been accused of enabling Hamas and acting as an impediment to peace.
Israel can and should allow more aid. And it seems like its failure to do so is going to cost its leadership their jobs in the next election, not Hamas though, because their leadership is holed up in Rafah surrounded by hundreds of thousands of human shields and the first thing they did after being elected to power was cancel all future elections.
Gimme a break… A war with supposedly 20000 casualties in a highly dense country with 2 million people is NOT a genocide.
If Hamas and the palestinians want the war to be over, they could just give back the hostages they took on October 7…
Pretty simple really
