Brute force protection

@memes

  • Rickety Thudds@lemmy.ca
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    0
    ·
    8 months ago

    Rainbow tables and presumably newer stuff I haven’t heard of make this sort of thing weaker than it used to be

    • Whelks_chance@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      0
      ·
      8 months ago

      How does a rainbow table help here? They’re more for decoding unsalted encrypted database tables, rather than for actually trying to login.

    • Clent@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      0
      ·
      8 months ago

      The rainbow table would have to include every four word combination. At around half a million words in the English dictionary, that’s not a small number.

      As another XKCD comic illustrates, it’s cheaper to use a wrench.

    • saigot@lemmy.ca
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      0
      ·
      edit-2
      8 months ago

      Dictionary attacks have been around for a long time, but It’s still quite strong especially if you throw in a number.

      A fully random 8 character password has about 10^14 brute force combinations (assuming upper and lower case + the normal special characters). 4 words choosen at random from the top 3000 words (which is a very small vocabulary really) is 10^13 dictionary attack combinations, add a single number or account for variations in word style (I.e maybe don’t always use camel case) and you’ve matched the difficulty. If you use 5 words it’s 10^17 combinations.

      A password manager and a hard password is a better idea but there are cases where you can’t use a password manager (like the password to said manager).

    • OpenStars@startrek.website
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      0
      ·
      8 months ago

      Yeah I thought about adding a note that it’s pretty outdated - and dictionary based scans were always possible even if less common in the old days - like those infamous passwords “God”, “Love”, “secret”, or like “admin”.

      The artist is pretty smart most of the time though so I presume they were aware of that possibility and meant that on a more basic level there are multiple ways to make passwords easier for a user to remember, not necessarily just this one rather simplistic take but as part of a whole approach. Then again, they didn’t say that, and instead said this, thus the controversy.

      Personally I gave up entirely and now I don’t even know what any of my own passwords are, though my password manager does:-). I guess… if you cannot beat them, join them!?:-P

      • Natanael@slrpnk.net
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        0
        ·
        8 months ago

        It’s it outdated at all, but you need more words.

        See diceware, 7 to 8 words fed typically all you need

      • KoboldCoterie@pawb.social
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        0
        ·
        edit-2
        8 months ago

        My current favorite “memorizable” method (obviously a random hash from a PW manager is still better) is to take a sentence of moderate complexity that includes the name of the service you’re signing up for in it, and use the first letter of each word as your password.

        For example, “When I wake up in the morning, the first thing I do is go to pawb.social.”

        Password would be “WIwuitm,tftIdigtps.”

        Easy to remember, immune to dictionary attacks, and you get a (mostly) unique password for each service, so stolen passwords can only access that one thing.

        Edit: To be clear, the value is that you can use the same sentence everywhere, switching out the name of the service to generate semi-unique passwords for each service. Obviously someone analyzing your passwords would be able to figure out the pattern, but that’s basically never what actually happens; it’s more likely someone gets 1 password and tries your email address + that PW in a variety of services, which this is strong against.

        • OpenStars@startrek.website
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          0
          ·
          8 months ago

          I dunno, all I do is hit copy, then go to the website and hit paste, and that’s pretty easy as well:-P.

          I do need to step up my game for work though, b/c it keeps asking me a password multiple times a day so if I could rattle one off that would be better than having to open up my password manager and get it.

          • KoboldCoterie@pawb.social
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            0
            ·
            8 months ago

            It’s surprisingly easy to memorize. The sentence basically acts as a mnemonic device to remember the password, and it’s a lot easier to memorize a sentence that makes sense to you than to memorize something like “Tr0ub4d0r&8”.

    • aname@lemmy.one
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      0
      ·
      8 months ago

      Salting makes rainbow tables pretty much useless, and salting has been a standard practise for a few decades now.

      • Mango@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        0
        ·
        8 months ago

        A few? I always had an easy time cracking my mom’s desktop password with them so I guess Microsoft wasn’t doing it with XP or Vista.

        • kuneho@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          0
          ·
          edit-2
          8 months ago

          Just to give you some opposite example, WordPress, Magento, Drupal, Django are using salts almost 2 decades now.