I mean… My own experience here completely agrees with their overall appraisal of the situation.
The only reason I’m still here instead of back there is 3rd party app support…but rather than 100% of my Reddit time becoming 100% Lemmy time, it’s more like 100% of my Reddit time becoming 20% still Reddit, from a computer, 20% Lemmy on mobile, and 15% in disbelief that I’m spending time on Facebook, and the remaining 45% of that time I used to spend on Reddit, I’m just not spending it on social media anymore.
So yeah. Lemmy wants to be a reddit alternative, but for me it’s just not. It’s similar, but with less content overall, less relevant and less interesting content, less interesting comments, and on average a worse community. Other than the shitty spez business practices (which are a big deal, don’t get me wrong), Lemmy’s just “Reddit, but worse in every way” to me.
Unless Lemmy gets better, it’ll never be more than an occasional visit for me…and if Reddit were for some reason to right the ship, shit can spez, and reintroduce 3rd party app support, I’d probably go back in a heartbeat.
I get what you’re saying, and even partially agree.
But at the same time, if I’m looking for a social media/content aggregation platform, and I have to choose between “idealistic vision, small and problematic community, low quantity and low quality content” vs “corporate/capitalist asshole vision, large and mediocre community, variable quality and quantity content” the latter is going to win every time, based on the fact that there is actually at least some content there that’s worth my time.
So far with Lemmy, the only thing I get here is memes…and news that I am already getting from 4 other sources first. None of my niche Reddit communities have any real presence here, so my visits are brief and unsatisfying.
I hear you, but what make me stick with Lemmy and try my best to make it work is the whole concept of decentralized social media. We can’t just handle the power back to big techs, see what facebook did in the whole trump election scandal. or what Twitter is becoming. The fediverse now is the only alternative we have, it is the last stand against a corporate controlled internet.
And I am tired to pretend social media does not dictates the real world trends, it does and it is here to stay. There is no more separation from irl and internet.
I’m not wasting time on, or making any commitment to, a flawed execution, no matter how much I might appreciate the concept.
And for that matter, while I know this isn’t a receptive audience to the idea, decentralization isn’t the be-all-end-all concern for a platform like this. Idealistically it’s nice, sure. But for me (and I’d wager most), it’s not even in my top 5 concerns when deciding how (or if) I spend my time on social media.
For me, it has to be relevant, informative, fresh, and well-delivered. If that means trading some of my personal data to their collectors, I’m fine with that. Lord knows everyone else is gathering it too. In the case of Lemmy, the benefits don’t matter if it’s not delivering on my main needs of it.
There are lot of people working for free to make it work by trying to improve it. It is easy to complain from the confort of my chair at home.
And so society becomes more cursed each day.
I largely agree, yet I’m more like 70% lemmy, 5% Reddit, 25% working on my own Reddit alternative. Why? I refuse to give Reddit more of my data when they’ve demonstrated that they’re more interested in monetization than making the best community (huge shift from when I first joined Reddit). I also think lemmy is doing interesting things to try to foster a great community, and I want to see what works.
But at the end of the day, I think lemmy is architected wrong. It relies on people spending a lot on hosting, which I really don’t think it’s sustainable, and it is also confusing for users, which is going to reduce adoption. My project attempts to solve both:
decentralized, so very little hosting costs, just a few relays
single namespace - less confusing for users, so /c/community means the same thing regardless of the relay you choose
There are some potential downsides, so I’m interested to see how bad those are.
But at the end of the day, I think lemmy is architected wrong. It relies on people spending a lot on hosting, which I really don’t think it’s sustainable, and it is also confusing for users, which is going to reduce adoption.
Have you considered that while those may be genuine technical issues, addressing those alone won’t in turn help much in building good communities? Imo one of the common problems across all social media is that a lot of smart, capable folks build their backend systems but neglect to bring on community relations teams (or in the context of entire platforms, community governance teams, maybe?) that coordinate with the people that use those systems.
Probably the big reason for this is that thus far large social media platforms have been built with a corporate mindset, and so the people aren’t viewed as people, but an audience for adverts, subscriptions, products, etc. Lemmy has a different yet similar issue insofar as technically capable folks building backend systems, but they don’t (nor others deploying their tech) have the resources to bring on any additional community-facing help to then coordinate and collaborate with people in governing their spaces.
Thanks for the feedback! And yeah, it’s absolutely something I’ve been thinking about. I’m not sure I’ll even publish it once I have it working because I’m worried about a bunch of nonsense like CSAM or bigotry, much less the more mundane issues of not spam.
And that’s the rub, building a good community is hard, especially on a digital platform, and requires a very different skillet from building good software. I’m not sure I’m cut out for that part, but I can learn from the issues lemmy runs into and try to solve them with technical solutions, namely quality moderation tools.
That’s especially challenging in a decentralized system, and it seems to have caused a lot of people to leave, so I’m trying to have a good solution out of the gate.
Since it’s decentralized, I can’t force anyone to recognize any given moderation without breaking the whole point of decentralization (i.e. nobody has control, even me), so my plan is to rely on a web of trust type system. For example:
you flag users you trust
users report content for violating certain rules
if enough people in your web of trust flag content, you won’t see it
I’ll probably include a default list, but users would be free to choose their own moderators if they think mine suck. But I have no idea how well that’ll work, but once I get a prototype working, I’ll post it somewhere (probably here on lemmy) to solicit feedback.
I think this idea is different enough to get people interested, and hopefully robust enough to keep people on the platform. To get content, I’ll probably bridge it with lemmy or something so it’ll look like another instance (again, not sure if that’s feasible or even wanted). It’s early days, and the more frustrated I get with lemmy, the more I’ll work on it.
I mean… My own experience here completely agrees with their overall appraisal of the situation.
The only reason I’m still here instead of back there is 3rd party app support…but rather than 100% of my Reddit time becoming 100% Lemmy time, it’s more like 100% of my Reddit time becoming 20% still Reddit, from a computer, 20% Lemmy on mobile, and 15% in disbelief that I’m spending time on Facebook, and the remaining 45% of that time I used to spend on Reddit, I’m just not spending it on social media anymore.
So yeah. Lemmy wants to be a reddit alternative, but for me it’s just not. It’s similar, but with less content overall, less relevant and less interesting content, less interesting comments, and on average a worse community. Other than the shitty spez business practices (which are a big deal, don’t get me wrong), Lemmy’s just “Reddit, but worse in every way” to me.
Unless Lemmy gets better, it’ll never be more than an occasional visit for me…and if Reddit were for some reason to right the ship, shit can spez, and reintroduce 3rd party app support, I’d probably go back in a heartbeat.
Remember: once a dick, always a dick. Reddit will not be unshittified, even if it looks that way for very brief moments.
I get what you’re saying, and even partially agree.
But at the same time, if I’m looking for a social media/content aggregation platform, and I have to choose between “idealistic vision, small and problematic community, low quantity and low quality content” vs “corporate/capitalist asshole vision, large and mediocre community, variable quality and quantity content” the latter is going to win every time, based on the fact that there is actually at least some content there that’s worth my time.
So far with Lemmy, the only thing I get here is memes…and news that I am already getting from 4 other sources first. None of my niche Reddit communities have any real presence here, so my visits are brief and unsatisfying.
I think instance blocking in 0.19 will help dramatically.
I hear you, but what make me stick with Lemmy and try my best to make it work is the whole concept of decentralized social media. We can’t just handle the power back to big techs, see what facebook did in the whole trump election scandal. or what Twitter is becoming. The fediverse now is the only alternative we have, it is the last stand against a corporate controlled internet.
And I am tired to pretend social media does not dictates the real world trends, it does and it is here to stay. There is no more separation from irl and internet.
There’s concept and there’s execution.
Gotta have both.
I’m not wasting time on, or making any commitment to, a flawed execution, no matter how much I might appreciate the concept.
And for that matter, while I know this isn’t a receptive audience to the idea, decentralization isn’t the be-all-end-all concern for a platform like this. Idealistically it’s nice, sure. But for me (and I’d wager most), it’s not even in my top 5 concerns when deciding how (or if) I spend my time on social media.
For me, it has to be relevant, informative, fresh, and well-delivered. If that means trading some of my personal data to their collectors, I’m fine with that. Lord knows everyone else is gathering it too. In the case of Lemmy, the benefits don’t matter if it’s not delivering on my main needs of it.
There are lot of people working for free to make it work by trying to improve it. It is easy to complain from the confort of my chair at home. And so society becomes more cursed each day.
I largely agree, yet I’m more like 70% lemmy, 5% Reddit, 25% working on my own Reddit alternative. Why? I refuse to give Reddit more of my data when they’ve demonstrated that they’re more interested in monetization than making the best community (huge shift from when I first joined Reddit). I also think lemmy is doing interesting things to try to foster a great community, and I want to see what works.
But at the end of the day, I think lemmy is architected wrong. It relies on people spending a lot on hosting, which I really don’t think it’s sustainable, and it is also confusing for users, which is going to reduce adoption. My project attempts to solve both:
There are some potential downsides, so I’m interested to see how bad those are.
Have you considered that while those may be genuine technical issues, addressing those alone won’t in turn help much in building good communities? Imo one of the common problems across all social media is that a lot of smart, capable folks build their backend systems but neglect to bring on community relations teams (or in the context of entire platforms, community governance teams, maybe?) that coordinate with the people that use those systems.
Probably the big reason for this is that thus far large social media platforms have been built with a corporate mindset, and so the people aren’t viewed as people, but an audience for adverts, subscriptions, products, etc. Lemmy has a different yet similar issue insofar as technically capable folks building backend systems, but they don’t (nor others deploying their tech) have the resources to bring on any additional community-facing help to then coordinate and collaborate with people in governing their spaces.
Thanks for the feedback! And yeah, it’s absolutely something I’ve been thinking about. I’m not sure I’ll even publish it once I have it working because I’m worried about a bunch of nonsense like CSAM or bigotry, much less the more mundane issues of not spam.
And that’s the rub, building a good community is hard, especially on a digital platform, and requires a very different skillet from building good software. I’m not sure I’m cut out for that part, but I can learn from the issues lemmy runs into and try to solve them with technical solutions, namely quality moderation tools.
That’s especially challenging in a decentralized system, and it seems to have caused a lot of people to leave, so I’m trying to have a good solution out of the gate.
Since it’s decentralized, I can’t force anyone to recognize any given moderation without breaking the whole point of decentralization (i.e. nobody has control, even me), so my plan is to rely on a web of trust type system. For example:
I’ll probably include a default list, but users would be free to choose their own moderators if they think mine suck. But I have no idea how well that’ll work, but once I get a prototype working, I’ll post it somewhere (probably here on lemmy) to solicit feedback.
I think this idea is different enough to get people interested, and hopefully robust enough to keep people on the platform. To get content, I’ll probably bridge it with lemmy or something so it’ll look like another instance (again, not sure if that’s feasible or even wanted). It’s early days, and the more frustrated I get with lemmy, the more I’ll work on it.