Oh nice, that’s how high Solana’s TPS has gone in testing (in practice it hovers around 5-10k TPS). There’s also newer chains like Aptos that claim to be able to handle 150k TPS with subsecond finality. Of course, neither of these chains are very decentralised, but at least they aren’t fully permissioned and centralised. Especially on a network belonging to a partisan, anti-competitive, anti-trust law-breaking, Wikileaks funding thieving Israel supporters like Visa.
General question, because I don’t give a shit about blockchain to research it.
Does it have a way to quickly and effectively handle fraud? And don’t tell me “there’s no way to commit fraud” because people can steal wallet passwords no fucking problem. With most banks they will actively track fraud, cancel those transactions, and restore your funds and possibly shut down the card automatically while still allowing the account to exist so you can access your money. Is that the case with blockchain?
It depends on whether you’re interacting with the blockchain directly, or via a custodial solution more appropriate for end consumers. Same like how you don’t get a refund if you operate a western union branch and fuck up the wire.
Yes. There are Escrow services in crypto that hold and issue chargebacks, but it is to to you if you want to use such a service.
centralized crypto exchanges also have fraud combatting teams. An example is that exchange that sponsors kitboga, the youtuber who screws around with Indian scammers. They lock scammers’ accounts from withdrawing but not depositing so they keep sending victims’ money to these accounts, and then eventually they lock the accounts and transfer the money back to the victims.
Obviously an issue with this approach is the scammers can just use decentralized wallets, but recently exchanges started blocking transactions to these too unless you provide KYC info about them, so they’re trying at least.
If you do things right, you can be relatively safe from fraud and scams, but most people won’t do things the right way.
Bitcoin is open-source software, a network of nodes running Bitcoin core, the source code for which you can find here: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin
Morals are a consequence of free will, which Bitcoin does not have. There are valid moralistic concerns about Bitcoin, but they are related to the impact of Bitcoin, rather than whether it is a moral system.
13.15 is the average number of transactions per second. Max TPS (57.91) is the largest recorded TPS, not the capacity of the blockchain. Max TPS will rise as more people use layer 2. Layer 2 solutions can handle 2,000-4,000 TPS, and there are 24 commonly known ones that can do these transactions in parallel.
I think it depends on the layer 2 solution, but as far as I understand, each of these layer 2 solutions independently have 2000-4000 as theoretical max, and only after bulking transactions together do they affect layer 1, so you should be able to add all layer 2 together for the total.
I guess the spatial sharding update will further increase the maximum number of transactions you can bulk by a factor or two so an individual layer 2 solution becomes comparable with visa, but I don’t think that update is coming to Ethereum in several years. Then again, Ethereum needing to perform 60,000 TPS is likely not happening this decade either.
For now at least, layer 2 is fast and cheap, although a bit difficult to use.
Yes but 65000 TPS for Bitcoin would likely have the planet glowing much brighter in the infrared… possibly even the visible, for all the heat we’d need to dump.
I’m personally advocating for Ethereum which is Proof of Stake and uses a fraction of the energy Bitcoin does.
However, correct me if I’m wrong here because I’m not that much invested in bitcoin as a tech or investment, but isn’t almost half of the energy used on bitcoin generated from renewables? I could swear I saw an article about it somewhere.
Although nowadays people seem busy heating up the world telling AI to cheat on their homework, so I wonder if this is a problem with society rather than technology.
However, correct me if I’m wrong here because I’m not that much invested in bitcoin as a tech or investment, but isn’t almost half of the energy used on bitcoin generated from renewables? I could swear I saw an article about it somewhere.
It’s still wasted energy. If it wasn’t used on bitcoins, it would have been used on other things - some of which had to be powered by fossil fuels.
Mining is a great way to deal with excess energy from solar farms.
When solar power plants produce more energy than needed, that means we have to shut down some of the plants temporarily. This is costly, and also means we require alternative energy for cloudy and rainy days. Solar still produces energy on these days, but not enough.
If we make more solar plants so we can have enough energy even for cloudy days we instead get too much energy on sunny days, and we are forced to shut down the plants temporarily, and this is essentially wasted money for these electric companies, so why would they want more solar plants?
Producing a lot of plants just to expect them to run with low efficiency and with half of them shut down on sunny days is wasteful and costly.
However, if we instead have mining rigs consume the excess energy, we get a stable energy flow, because mining rigs will turn on and off based on the cost of electricity. Supply and demand stabilize.
It may very well be renewable. I’m really more referring to the inefficient way in which the sums are calculated. Those data centers get warmish.
And yeah, AI is just the next thing we decided to punish our GPUs with. Crazy how we’ve used that part of the computer these last few decades…
I’m more engaged in a chat gpt session that I am staying up till 4 am watching line graphs of crypto prices, guilty as charged 😁. Not sure what comment it makes about society other than “we seem pretty lonely, everything ok?”
That’s just proof of work chains like bitcoin. Ethereum doesn’t have intense calculations and nodes instead use their staked money as liability to offer proof of transactions.
TPS metrics of the most popular blockchains
As a global payments network Visa has the capacity to execute more than 65,000 transactions per second.
Oh nice, that’s how high Solana’s TPS has gone in testing (in practice it hovers around 5-10k TPS). There’s also newer chains like Aptos that claim to be able to handle 150k TPS with subsecond finality. Of course, neither of these chains are very decentralised, but at least they aren’t fully permissioned and centralised. Especially on a network belonging to a partisan, anti-competitive, anti-trust law-breaking, Wikileaks funding thieving Israel supporters like Visa.
General question, because I don’t give a shit about blockchain to research it.
Does it have a way to quickly and effectively handle fraud? And don’t tell me “there’s no way to commit fraud” because people can steal wallet passwords no fucking problem. With most banks they will actively track fraud, cancel those transactions, and restore your funds and possibly shut down the card automatically while still allowing the account to exist so you can access your money. Is that the case with blockchain?
It depends on whether you’re interacting with the blockchain directly, or via a custodial solution more appropriate for end consumers. Same like how you don’t get a refund if you operate a western union branch and fuck up the wire.
Yes. There are Escrow services in crypto that hold and issue chargebacks, but it is to to you if you want to use such a service.
centralized crypto exchanges also have fraud combatting teams. An example is that exchange that sponsors kitboga, the youtuber who screws around with Indian scammers. They lock scammers’ accounts from withdrawing but not depositing so they keep sending victims’ money to these accounts, and then eventually they lock the accounts and transfer the money back to the victims.
Obviously an issue with this approach is the scammers can just use decentralized wallets, but recently exchanges started blocking transactions to these too unless you provide KYC info about them, so they’re trying at least.
If you do things right, you can be relatively safe from fraud and scams, but most people won’t do things the right way.
And of course we can rest assured that nobody profiting off bitcoin is morally questionable
Ah yes, Bitcoin bad because some people that use it are bad, how did I never think of that
I’m not saying that, rather I’m saying that I don’t see how either thing is clearly morally superior.
Bitcoin is open-source software, a network of nodes running Bitcoin core, the source code for which you can find here: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin
Morals are a consequence of free will, which Bitcoin does not have. There are valid moralistic concerns about Bitcoin, but they are related to the impact of Bitcoin, rather than whether it is a moral system.
13.15 is the average number of transactions per second. Max TPS (57.91) is the largest recorded TPS, not the capacity of the blockchain. Max TPS will rise as more people use layer 2. Layer 2 solutions can handle 2,000-4,000 TPS, and there are 24 commonly known ones that can do these transactions in parallel.
Isn’t that still an order of magnitude less than what Visa can do? Or is there some extra math involved that I don’t know about
I think it depends on the layer 2 solution, but as far as I understand, each of these layer 2 solutions independently have 2000-4000 as theoretical max, and only after bulking transactions together do they affect layer 1, so you should be able to add all layer 2 together for the total.
I guess the spatial sharding update will further increase the maximum number of transactions you can bulk by a factor or two so an individual layer 2 solution becomes comparable with visa, but I don’t think that update is coming to Ethereum in several years. Then again, Ethereum needing to perform 60,000 TPS is likely not happening this decade either.
For now at least, layer 2 is fast and cheap, although a bit difficult to use.
Where are you getting the TPS report for the Lightning Network? I thought its theoretical max TPS was in the millions.
Yes but 65000 TPS for Bitcoin would likely have the planet glowing much brighter in the infrared… possibly even the visible, for all the heat we’d need to dump.
A rich, warm, and sterilized world!
I’m personally advocating for Ethereum which is Proof of Stake and uses a fraction of the energy Bitcoin does.
However, correct me if I’m wrong here because I’m not that much invested in bitcoin as a tech or investment, but isn’t almost half of the energy used on bitcoin generated from renewables? I could swear I saw an article about it somewhere.
Although nowadays people seem busy heating up the world telling AI to cheat on their homework, so I wonder if this is a problem with society rather than technology.
It’s still wasted energy. If it wasn’t used on bitcoins, it would have been used on other things - some of which had to be powered by fossil fuels.
Without bitcoin, the renewable energy plants wouldn’t have been built.
We don’t have a shortage of electricity in the world, we just don’t have enough incentive to make it renewable.
How does that even make sense? Renewable is cheaper than burning petrol, of course there’s a shortage.
Mining is a great way to deal with excess energy from solar farms.
When solar power plants produce more energy than needed, that means we have to shut down some of the plants temporarily. This is costly, and also means we require alternative energy for cloudy and rainy days. Solar still produces energy on these days, but not enough.
If we make more solar plants so we can have enough energy even for cloudy days we instead get too much energy on sunny days, and we are forced to shut down the plants temporarily, and this is essentially wasted money for these electric companies, so why would they want more solar plants?
Producing a lot of plants just to expect them to run with low efficiency and with half of them shut down on sunny days is wasteful and costly.
However, if we instead have mining rigs consume the excess energy, we get a stable energy flow, because mining rigs will turn on and off based on the cost of electricity. Supply and demand stabilize.
I don’t think you understand how the electric grid works if you say that wasting energy into creating heat is the way to go.
It may very well be renewable. I’m really more referring to the inefficient way in which the sums are calculated. Those data centers get warmish.
And yeah, AI is just the next thing we decided to punish our GPUs with. Crazy how we’ve used that part of the computer these last few decades…
I’m more engaged in a chat gpt session that I am staying up till 4 am watching line graphs of crypto prices, guilty as charged 😁. Not sure what comment it makes about society other than “we seem pretty lonely, everything ok?”
That’s just proof of work chains like bitcoin. Ethereum doesn’t have intense calculations and nodes instead use their staked money as liability to offer proof of transactions.